Prime Roy Jones Jr. vs. Artur Beterbiev.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Dec 23, 2021.

  1. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is has been debated for years.

    In a live broadcast, HBO said that Liles had been offered 7 figures to fight Roy in 1996, which would have been the biggest purse of his career.

    Also, Liles’ former manager, Jack O’Halloran, states that they had a fight lined up against Roy, but that Frankie blew it by going back and asking for additional money at the last minute.
     
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  2. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Most of Jones' opponents got peanuts. He wasn't even willing to pay his mandatory Nunn, but wanted to pay Liles over a million ? Frankie disagrees.
    HBO was pumping Jones up all the time. They were never going to badmouth him on live air.
    Former
     
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  3. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    I am trying to talk to Liles. See if he recalls any details that I could check online.
     
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  4. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Also a point to remember several of these guys were with King, and King at different points in time wanted options on certain fighters in order for them to fight his fighters. King was generally the main promoter on Showtime after the Tyson/King falling out over at HBO a few years earlier. Like today, boxing politics reared its ugly head in the 90s as well.

    Loudon is right, HBO did an interview with Jones before the Brannon fight (available via YouTube) where they discuss the 7 figure offers sent to different fighters that were turned down. No one from my memory ever refuted these claims, sued HBO, or said something different.

    The Jones WBC situation was a mess no argument there. At the time I was scratching my head how Nunn got a shot at the vacant title as he was looking very ordinary and was basically written off at this time as a shell of his former self. The true tragedy of the situation is that Rocchigiani didn't just bankrupt the WBC out of existence.
     
  5. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I also don't care if you care about my opinion either, you snowflake! I'm not here to cater for snowflakes like you, who get all into their feelings and start getting their knickers in a twist like a little wimp because someone said something they did not like about their favorite fighters. Guess what you weasel? Joe Frazier and Roy Jones Jr aren't going to come and caress you to sleep at night because you're defending them online. So stop embarrassing yourself!

    It ain't my problem if you can't interpret a hyperbole. It's one thing to not be able to interpret a hyperbole, it's a totally different kettle of fish when you keep insisting on interpreting my obviously hyperbolic statements literally, even upon me telling you multiple times they are hyperboles and should not be taken literally. You must be an utter short-sighted simpleton with 0 capacity to read between the lines.

    When someone says Paulie Malignaggi has no power, does that mean he literally has no power? No it doesn't! But I bet that's how you interpret it, right? It's a freaking hyperbole! Likewise, if I say Roy Jones Jr can't fight on the inside, it too doesn't mean he literally has never displayed any inside fighting skills in his life or that he has NEVER fought inside. Exceptions may be found, but rare exceptions don't make something the norm. If the exceptions are too rare, we can safely dismiss them.

    The fact that something like this has to even be spelt out, to someone I presume is an adult, is outright embarrassing! Even some young kids know what a hyperbole is what a hyperbole is not LMFAO!

    Also, I have already stated in my initial post, and reiterated multiple times now, that Roy Jones Jr has 'RUDIMENTARY' inside-fighting skills AT BEST, and I've maintained this position all along. So no, I've not changed or shifted any goal-posts. You're seeing imaginary things!

    Funny how it's okay for you to cherry-pick a fight to make Roy Jones Jr look good, where in the very rare exception, he fought inside and showed some rudimentary skills. But it's not okay for me to do the opposite? LMFAO! Talk about special pleading:

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    And spare me the excuses! I didn't pick the Joe Calzaghe fight arbitrarily, I chose that fight SPECIFICALLY because Roy Jones Jr was FORCED to fight on the inside, and was forced to defend himself on the inside and was forced to create offense on the inside to stand any chance on beating Calzaghe. Yet, he showed 0 inside fighting skills (yes, that's a hyperbole before you start taking everything literally again).

    When you're forced to fight on the inside, but can't and look clueless instead, then it counts against you. You do realize this, right? An objective debate has two-sides and both sides have to be evaluated equally. Any counter-feat of Roy Jones Jr showing poor inside-fighting skills, especially when he is forced to fight on the inside, counts against him. And there are far more examples of Roy Jones Jr displaying low quality if not outright nonexistent inside-fighting skills than there is of him showing anything noteworthy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  6. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And LMFAO! The moment you started giving Roy Jones Jr credit for having abilities that he's never shown in his career, is the moment you exposed yourself as a pure fanatical fanboy / fangirl, an embarrassing one at that, for fantasizing rather than staying in reality.

    Being able to generate power with limited space is not a style, is also a capability and is also based off specific attributes you clown. The idea that Roy Jones Jr can just suddenly throw powerful knockout punches at close-range when he's never shown that ability at any respectable level before, is outright hysteria from an embarrassing celebrity worshipping fanatic such as yourself.

    Oh and for starters, how do you know Lomachenko does not already possess the attributes that Roy Jones Jr has for speed and power? If I follow your perfect fanboy / fangirl reasoning, then I could just say he never needed to show it but he can if he needs to and my point will have equal merit. But unlike you, I'm not going to sit here and give Lomachenko credit for attributes he's never shown because unlike you, I'm not a fanatical celebrity worshipper. I only deal with reality and what people have actually shown in reality, not what they can do in my fantasies.

    To further demonstrate how embarrassing your argument is (if we can even call it that), if Roy Jones Jr already had the attributes to badly hurt and KO opponents with short range punches, then what logical reason would there be for him to not throw such punches and instead purposely choose to throw weak-ass featherfisted punches on the inside (the rare times he did fight on the inside), to the point where he's never managed to KO a single respectable opponent or even drop an opponent with short-punches? You telling me he could generate power with short-range punches but he on purpose decided to throw weak-ass punches for the entire fight against the likes of Jeff lacy, for no other reason than because you say so therefore it has to be true? LMFAO!

    Even my pre-teen martial arts students know the importance of maximum effectiveness with minimum effort and maximum effectiveness with maximum efficiency. The idea that a pro boxer like Roy Jones Jr is going to purposely choose to be less efficient or choose to waste more energy, when he doesn't need to, is the epitome of embarrassing fanaticism and celebrity worshipping.

    Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

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    Explanations that posit fewer entities, or fewer kinds of entities, are to be preferred to explanations that posit more.

    Thus, it's far more reasonable to infer that Roy Jones Jr has never shown short-range knockout power because he simply lacks the attributes required to, rather than far fetched theories like he chooses not to for whatever fanatical reason.

    And as for your 'rapid fire combinations of double hooks and uppercuts' being evidence of Roy Jones Jr being this amazing inside fighter, I bet you're referring to this:



    @ 2:15. Or 3:25. Or 3:33. Or @ 3:55.

    I bet you're creaming your pants to those punches, right? LMFAO!

    Instead of doing that, count for us how many of those punches were illegal slaps (landing with his palms or side of the gloves instead of the knuckles).

    Flashy combination of hooks and uppercuts aren't one-bit impressive objectively, when nearly all of them aren't even legal blows to begin with.

    And the few that do land legally, have never once even managed to drop a credible opponent, much less KO them. So tell us Loudon, why should anyone be OBJECTIVELY impressed with Roy Jones Jr's inside fighting skills, beyond flashy "DOUBLE HOOKS AND UPPERCUTS DOE"? LMFAO!

    Talking about being 'SMART', if you were half as 'SMART' as YOU think you are, you'd first study the rules and learn / know about the very fundamental rules of punching, rather than trying to act smart by going on a ramble / tangent on the implications of styles in boxing, when you're evidently not even qualified to comment on such matters.

    So it's YOU who's got to stay in YOUR lane, as anything above the very fundamentals is way above your paygrade here.

    As for why I'm obsessed with the pendulum step? Go ask Bruce Lee! Okay you can't because he's dead, so do the next best thing and go ask his students or his disciples of Jeet Kune Do.

    Bruce Lee used to obsessively spend hours studying Muhammad Ali's footwork, because of its importance not JUST in boxing, but in general hand to hand combat.

    Martial artists from other martial arts also spend hours studying and practicing the pendulum step developed in boxing, because it's one of, if not the most important skill any martial artist can learn from boxing.

    And the masters of such footwork are Usyk, Lomachenko, Pacquiao and Muhammad Ali. Combat experts don't look at Roy Jones Jr's footwork and try to implement the footwork he's known for, NO! At least not anywhere near the extent of the pendulum steps that the likes of Ali employed, because that kind of footwork is significantly more practical for generic hand to hand combat than the footwork Roy Jones Jr used to employ.

    Anyway, unless you actually progress the argument in someway rather than just repeating and parrotting what I've already addressed, I'm gonna let you have the final say.

    But you've literally been reduced to argument from authority (I say so therefore it's true type of arguments) and arguments from fantasy (hypothetical claims not based on demonstrated feats). When such is the extent of your argument, then you don't have much of a leg to continue standing on. Whereas pretty much everything I've stated, is grounded in reality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Serge told you it's not just Serge who has noticed this

    But Roy who rarely got hit (right?) and wasn't involved in any wars, was ''shot to bits'' overnight at 35 y/o but in no way, shape or form can a fighter who had 300 amateur fights, has become very injury prone just like fellow amateur greats like Korobov, Loma and Usyk have who also had extremely extensive amateur careers of 300 + fights have since they hit their early-mid 30s, can be even remotely past their best or slipping at 37 years of age (in 10 days) :facepalm:


    Listen to what Teddy has to say about Beterbiev

    Timestamped

    And he also speaks at length about what makes Beterbiev so formidable, things which many of you DKSAB casual untrained eye Roy fanatics who get giddy off speed and athleticism won't pickup



    And again

    Timestamped

     
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  8. Joe.Boxer

    Joe.Boxer Chinchecker Full Member

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    lol clueless. Do some research.
     
  9. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Clueless? This interview happened. What research are you talking about?
     
  10. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Jones was willing to deal with King when he felt like it. See John Ruiz.
     
  11. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Well-Known Member Full Member

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    As I said in my previous post, King at different times wanted options on fighters. By 2003/2004 this was a different scenario for King then in 1996.
     
  12. Aydamn

    Aydamn Whyte beats Fury on 23/04 (predicted 15/04/2022) Full Member

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    Tough one, boils down to who imposes their strengths first, Beterbiev with his power and ruggedness or Rou Jones with his mobility, speed, explosiveness. I think Beterbiev has shocked the boxing world with how destructive he can be as a fighter against some tough, capable SOBs.
     
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  13. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Asking for options is standard business practice. Jones himself was a greedy man, so I doubt he would ever be willing to share money with decent boxers unless he had no other choice.
     
  14. Scar

    Scar Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're wasting your valuable time with that mental turd.
     
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