Prime Roy Jones jr vs Joe Louis

RJJ is not "a natural" 168/175 lb man in the 1940s... No, he starts at L-HW and levels at HW, just the same as all the other fighters then of his same Stature...

you don't do the 2000's in the 1940's, you do the same as your then 1940 peers did.

likewise, if the 1940s fighters were now, in the 2000s, they too would do the same as their now 2000's contemporaries do. Joe Louis would start as a young S-MW, leveling out as a L-HW.

you can't just look at weight divisions now too then, now fighters fight Down in Divisions, in the past they'd be Up in Divisions.

 

No. As per the link in my previous post, LHWs today average in the mid to high 180s on fight night, Louis the mid 200s.

If Louis had his career in the modern era he'd start at CW and would likely bulk up to HW at some point.

 

Louis was in the 190s for many of his fights. That's approximately what Benavidez weighed in his last fight at light heavyweight (196)

The Louis of the Schmelling rematch or the Baer fight could absolutely fight Jones at light heavyweight.

 

Yes, that would be his walking around weight and more but you are forgetting the Few Fights and MONTHS & MONTHS to make weight Fighting Down just like his 'today' peers do, why would he do it different from his peers of the same stature today, he wouldn't.

 

If Jones was doing as they did in the 40's he wouldn't have all that modern "nutrition" and the like and would be a smaller professional fighter from the get go.

If Louis was doing the 2000's he'd be a bigger speciman. Greg is likely correct that he'd start cruiser then grow into heavyweight.

 

You're taking Louis at his lightest weight, one of the highest LHW fight night weights and even then your example does not work, because Louis will have been heavier than 196lbs entering the ring for every single one of his prime fights.

I could just as easily say Louis would have been 210lbs on fight night vs Abe Simon and Michael Hunter 197lbs on fight night vs Usyk, therefore Louis is too big to be a CW.

Both are silly takes. The fact remains Louis's average weight during his prime years was clearly closer to typical modern day CW fight night weights than modern LHW fight night weights.

 

You don't appear to be factoring in that modern fighters clearly have much more muscle mass, even at lower weight divisions, on average, which makes them heavier than similar framed fighters from long ago eras, before their weight cut to make weight.

Louis is naturally bigger than every LHW I can think of who are competing today. He's also likely naturally bigger than than some recent/current HWs, such as Byrd, Chambers and Torrez Jnr.

If Louis were to start his career today, it would be at CW. If he dominated, he'd bulk up and move to HW.

 

We'll just have to disagree on this then and that's cool.

but either side of 6ft. Fighters today that are walking around at 190lbs - 200 plus lbs are most often than not fighting at S-MW and L-HW, some MW, so bringing Louis into today, why would he do it any different than everyone else, when he doesn't have too.

Months & Months to make weight with a few fights a year or less, No, he'd do just the same as near all of his today peers do.

Likewise, through Roy Jones & Co into the 1940s, knocking about at 190/200lbs, they wouldn't think they can make MW, some wouldn't even consider L-HW...

Nope they would do the same as their then 1940's peers and some would maybe start as MW's, most would fight at L-HW, knowing 'most' fights are at Catchweights anyway, make the 175 'IF' qualified for title tilts and finish as HW's, just as most of their then peers did.

there were plenty of muscle adonis' then too.

 

Louis was not walking around at 190-200lbs, though. He was weighing in at 197-207lbs, which likely means he was c.200-210lbs in the ring. The average LHW today is mid to late 180s on fight night.

If RJJ was in the 1940's he obviously wouldn't have had the same muscle mass and would have weighed less on fight night (but not at weigh in) than he did in reality.

I agree LHWs, for example, today are typically bigger than LHWs from the same day weigh in era. However, as someone who has collated substantial data on recorded fight night weights, I notice a lot of misinformation posted on this site about the scale of rehydration. Some posters seem to read of one extreme example and then assume its the norm, when it demonstrably isn't.

Happy to agree to disagree.

 

Everyone talks about the great performance of Billy Conn vs Louis and that he almost won. Jones was on another level athletically then Conn and he was naturally about 180. He could have easily come in a solid 182 or 3 vs Louis which would be 14 or 15 pounds more the Conn was and at the same time being much faster then him. How could Louis catch him or stop his punches. You don’t believe it then go back and watch a fight with Jones weighing what Conn weighed and beating a great fighter in his prime as good or probably better then Conn in James Toney. And not just winning but totally dominating.

 

Talking of misinformation.....

Conn was 174lbs the first time Louis knocked him out (which is 8-9 lbs less than 182/183lbs) and was 182lbs the second time Louis stopped him.

 

No you can't because we know cruiserweights enter the ring as high as 220 (Ramirez).

Louis would be a big light heavyweight like Benavidez but he clearly could fight there if he was inclined to do so.

 

Louis would have been between about 200lbs and 210lbs entering the ring during his prime.

I've posted a link to recorded fight night weights of 10 x LHWs averaging 187.7lbs.

I've posted a link to recorded fight night weights of 2 x CWs averaging 202.25lbs.

Feel most welcome to post links to documented fight weights that support your position, otherwise, the facts will remain that Louis's weight is more closely aligned with typical CW fight night weights today, then LHW, based on available records of fight night weights.

P.s. that should come as no surprise to anyone, as clearly most LHWs aren't rehydrating 25-35lbs in c.30-hours.

 

RJJ probably would of dominated Louis. I mean Joe has a punchers chance. But Roy is only giving up about 15lbs in the ring, given he rehyrated to 185. And in every boxing avenue he is outboxing, outsmarting and outspeeding Louis several levels above what the brown bomber ever experienced. This is Schmelling or Conn or Walcott to the power of a million.

Still Joe could have maybe timed and caught Roy, it's possible. Roy would be a huge favourite with the bookies

 

Becoming a two division champion would probably be a big incentive