Prime Sonny Liston vs 1970's Muhammad Ali

Anytime up to,and including,the Rumble in the Jungle Ali beats a prime Liston. Muhammad still too fast for Sonny. And if he gets tagged is tough enough to come back from it.

 

Difference being those fights were winnable for Liston so he hung in there.
Against Ali, he realised he was never going to win. He quit.
Vitali gets disparaged for pulling out against Byrd with an injured shoulder. Liston deserves flak for quitting against Ali.
Nah, Liston could never beat Ali because he'd fail the gut check every time.

 

His cornermen said the injury was "cooked up on the spot" after he quit, to save face.

 

Tough fight tbh. Rope a dope wouldn't be overly effective but Liston didn't cut off the ring like George either. At the very least it would be a tough night for Ali.

 

Ali soaks up liston s best shots as he did against Foreman, and comes back to stop a tired Sonny in 11.

 

What was the medical diagnosis of the injury? Was it ever revealed to the press or public?

 

Early 70s Ali would still beat Liston mentally so he wins ... I would favor Liston to beat Ali from 73 or 74 onward though

 

His doctor said directly after Liston quit, when they were still in the ring, that it was a dislocated shoulder, I think. The verdict after examination at the hospital was "that he had torn a shoulder muscle and the injury was debilitating".

 

Badly injured shoulder? Nah, that was an excuse.
I don't see why he should get credit for anything there. He was the champ, wasn't he? A heavy betting favourite.
He quit after following Ali like a puppy on a leash for 6 rounds, landing nothing of note.

 

If we took the more active and ferocious Liston of 1960 and placed him against the slightly slower Ali of the mid 70s, Sonny would have a chance. Liston was a precision puncher with an excellent left jab and powerful right. Some of the energy conserving tactics employed by Muhammad in the 70’s such as leaning on the ropes, holding behind the neck and switching back and forth to flat footed stance would make him more vulnerable to a prime sonny.

 

Liston landed several clean bombs to the head and body of Ali.

 

Which begs the question, if he, as Liston himself claimed, dislocated his left shoulder in the first round, then how did he manage to throw hard punches with that left hand for another 5?

The momentum was clearly with Ali. He dictated the pace, marked Liston up pretty good and cut him, backed him up a few times, and had Liston following him all over the place when he chose to dance.
You may see things differently, but I see a guy not having his way at all, and a guy surprised and befuddled by Ali's speed. Ali was unmarked and showing no signs of slowing.

 

It's well accepted Liston struggled with Ali's speed and class. It's also well accepted Liston took Ali for granted and thought he was a walkover.

Absolutely the fight was all Ali. The fix was not on in this one otherwise Liston would not have thrown the bombs he did against a guy many thought would fall down. Any one of those that missed or landed could have potentially ended the night.

Now Ali would quite likely have beaten even a well trained hungry version of Liston. I do believe however that the fix was on in the second fight and Liston was forced to throw it. The theory i subscribe to was the one told where Liston got himself into great shape knowing what he was up against.

I think it's very indicative Liston's shoulder was injured in round 6 as he threw nothing but light left jabs that lacked conviction and about 2 left hooks and right hands. Maybe claiming it was injured in round 1 was just an excuse to save more face.