Prime Sonny Liston vs 90s HWs

I will never understand the love for guys like Liston, Quarry, and a few others.

 

Liston is an all-time great but I can't see ranking him as high as some people on this forum do.

He beat one Hall of Famer in Floyd Patterson. Patterson was a small HW who was knocked down more than 20 times in his career.

Liston stopped Folley in the 3rd round. Folley was a solid contender and would have made a good Cruiserweight but that division wasn't around yet. Even if it was Heavyweight was/is where the money and fame is. He would end up at HW either way. Folley wasn't the most durable either.

Machen was pretty much on par with Folley. Machen was a little more durable than Folley (except for when Johansson stopped him in the 1st round in Sweden) but Folley was a little more technically sound. Liston beat Machen by decision in a good fight.

Cleveland Williams was fargon shlt! He is way overrated, almost as much as Jerry Quarry! Williams went 1-1 vs. Terrell and fought a Draw with Machen. He never got past the 3rd round with Liston x2, Satterfield (who was a small Heavyweight), and Ali. He did absolutely nothing else worth mentioning.

Liston looked good in most of his wins but he never proved he had the ability to beat a really big and talented modern Heavyweight like Bowe, Lewis, either Klitschko, and a few others. No shame in losing to Ali and he was past prime vs. Leotis Martin. He got better after his loss to the 180 Lb. Marshall (his jaw was broke in that fight). He did go 2-1 (1) vs. Marshall.

Liston beat a washed up Nino Valdes. He looked good beating up guys who would have been pissing their pants waiting for Tyson to enter the ring.

 

Why did you call him an ATG then? Based on the wins over Floyd?

 

Why not surmise what a prime 90's Liston would have looked like. Also, had he been brought along better and...without his run ins with the cops, his 'prime' would have been 5 years earlier. IMO a 90's prime 'Bear' may have beaten them all!

 

I suspect that Liston ranks higher head to head, than he does in terms of resume.

He just seems to have had everything.

 

Liston was bigger than most of the men he fought, sometimes a lot bigger. He was a strong man with good punching power in both hands. He had a long reach and a good jab, he used his reach well. He didn't have quick hands or quick feet but he could cut the ring off pretty well. He was a good finisher. He was pretty durable. Yes, he was stopped 3 times but he was only down and out in one of those losses. I don't think he was down more than twice in his 54 pro fights. He did suffer a broken jaw early in his career but managed to gobthe distance.

We really don't know how Liston would do vs. big, strong, and talented HWs like Foreman, Bowe, Lewis, and others. We don't really know how he would do against guys similar in size but very good like Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield, and others. There just isn't enough in his resume to really form a strong opinion.

I guess the same can be said of a lot of fighters but with Liston I have heard and read many arguments claiming that he would have beaten most... I'm just not convinced.

He would not be the bigger man in most of these fights. Even when he was the bigger man he wouldn't be that much bigger. This is something he was not used to.

Take a guy like Holyfield. People used to say Liston's neck was huge. Tyson and Holyfield had/have thicker necks. He had a long reach but he was 6'1" at best... it's a little different when you are 4 or 5" shorter and have to punch up at your target. Also, some of that reach was made up of the distance between his shoulders. I'm not saying the man didn't have long arms, but don't get too obsessed over his supposed 84" reach.

Lennox Lewis had/has a legit 84" reach and stood 6'5". Lewis had good hand speed and used his size advantages (height, reach, weight) very well. Lewis also had plenty of power. I'll take Lewis.

 

He is an all-time great... but he isn't a top 5 HW. I don't even think top 10 all-time.

 

He knocks them all out

 

It's one thing to pick a prime Tyson to beat Liston, but a 90s Tyson?

 

Voice of reason

 

91 tyson is a pick em. I would guess tyson wins a toufh decision

Post prison tyson was slower, less elusive and had mentally regressed to a fraudulent thug. His post prison career was a fraud, he was no longer a fighter. Liston would beat that tyson down in 8-10 rounds after a wild first 3 rounds.

Mercer gets punished and beaten down.

Lewis would be favored to beat liston. Liston has a punchers chance

Liston would be favpred vs bowe.
bowe could be hurt by single punches from huys who werent huge punchers and he has no respect for his opponents punches. Liston is the bigger hitter with longer reach, the better jab and more accurate right hand

Liston beats george by tough decision, he probably messes georges face up as bad as stewart did

Holyfield outpoints liston


Liston beats evryone else

 

I agree with 99% of this however I think mercer gives him a good fight but Liston wins

 

I think that we have to factor in Liston's relatively short prime, and lack of focus once he held the title.

Nobody is getting away with that for long in this era.

We are probably looking at an impressive run to the title, possibly a spectacular usurpation of the crown, and than a rapid decline to second rater status.

 

Well said! The 90's weren't really known for keeping HW's around who we were not winning or on the decline. Way too much talent in the division in that era for this to happen. IMO Liston wouldn't have had enough time to beat half the guys on this list...

 

Liston was cleaning out the division and some wanted nothing to do him . He had between '57-'62, that's 5 years, to fight the list.. You're right he wasn't the same fighter in '64 '65 at 35 years old and on ... not focused .. past prime when he faced Ali. At least half the list would sh@t their pants to be in the ring with a '59 '60 Liston, as Patterson did.