Prime to Prime Jim Jeffires vs Ezzard Charles

5'10 6/7"

 

Marciano was neither, he was 5 10 1/2in, 69 in reach.
Liston was 6' 1'' 84in reach
AND LOUIS, DESPITE WHAT BOXREC AND SUZIE SAY, WAS 6 1 1/2in.

 

Taller than Johnson's at least, which is not too difficult, but hair isn't the whole answer.

 

SQ: You are 100% correct about the conflicting , varying accounts ... very annoying ...

Johnson seems slightly tilted to side to face the camera ... all and all it is a weird fu-king photo ...

 

I thought Liston was closer to 6' 6'1 range than 6'1 1/2.

Some sources claimed 6'0, others claim 6' 1/2. More than a few say 6'1. Never seen 6'1 1/2.

Not trying to start an argument as I understand your point.

 

Johnson looks slighter shorter than Choynski in that photo. Choysnki was not listed at 6', but Johnson was. If Johnson reach was indeed 74", I think Choynski juding by that photo looks to be about 75" in reach. Intersting Photo.

 

OLD FOGEY,

I think the reason Jeffires did not KO Choynski was lack of experience. Indeed it was his 6th listed fight, but he did manage to floor Choynski three times.

Armstrong was also floored, and he sort of lucked out that Jeffries broke his thumb early in that fight, and may have been conserving energy as he was scheduled to fight two men on the same day, with the second opponent being a decent Steve O'Donnell.

As for Sharkey, Only Fitz flattened him in his prime. Jeffires had Sharkey hurt in both fight, and would have likely finished him in the 2nd fight if he did not injure his shoulder.

So you picked the three men Jeffries did not Ko. I think the above reasons are valid as to why he didn't finish them. Louis, Liston, and Dempsey had plenty of guys go the distance on them, and in many cases they were not hall of fame fighters as Choysnki or Sharkey were.

 

And you still have a grudge when I correctly point out Johnson's flaws on news paper reviews or films. No worries, I don't have time to get in to that one right now. I do hope some objective posters here picked up a thing or two on the past exchanges on that topic.

As for what Jeffries brings that Marciano did not, I would say about 35 pounds of muscle, 3-4"" in height, about 9-10" in reach, much more athleticism, better defense, and better speed of hand and foot. If that is not enough just about every historian who lived from 1890-1955 felt Jeffries was better.

 

I don't think ole Jeffers was a wicked one punch KO artist either, but, he was strong as an Ox........ In terms of strength, he may have been the strongest champion up until Sonny Liston.... I also think that Jeff had a scientific approach to his attack.... Jeff buddy was NOT just a wild brawler looking to hit a home run with every punch thrown.... Jeff applied pressure and forced his attack on a dude..... However, I see Jeff, like Sonny Liston, having trouble with fleet boxers who could utilize the ring.......... Any ring smaller than a 20 X 20 gives Jeff the edge........

MR.BILL

 

Marciano may--may--wipe out Corbett early, but Fitz KO's him under anything close to turn-of-the-century conditions. Though Marciano's crouch does worry me a bit...

 

Ole Bobby Fitz is WAY overrated and often over-credited as a heavyweight........ Fitz' style is way too old fashioned..... Fitz was great for a middleweight / 175 pounder, but his luck would run out against 185+ pounders who were championship material........... Fitz could NOT hang with Rocco Marciano in a time machine......... Marciano would chase Fitz' ass right outta the ring........ I see Marciano parking Fitz like a Ford Truck within 10 rds........

MR.BILL

 

Its been posted before ,can't remember if it is just after their encounter or not.
I have allways beleived Jeffries was 6' 2in , but he looks shorter than Fitz in the preliminary handshaking, photos,especially old sepia ones ,are deceptive.

 

Very solid post.

 

I dont have a grudge against you,I don't attach enough importance to you .
You are entitled to hold Johnson in whatever esteem you wish,I could not care less.
I do find it strange that you alone discern all these flaws in Johnson's technique,whereas,in contrast contemporary writers found him to be a defensive genius,indeed boxing writers up to the present concur on this.
You appear to be a lone voice crying in the wilderness on this subject.
The recent Heavyweight great poll reinforced Johnson's standing ,whereas your own Champion ,Jeffries did not do so well did he?

You are inordinately fond of using the expression "historians say" .Well, two of the most respected historians .Nat Fleischer and Gilbert Odd BOTH NAMED JACK JOHNSON AS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT THEY EVER SAW ,and NOT up to 1955 but up to Ali's time .

Back on topic

What Jeffries lacks vis a vis Marciano is all time one shot ko power, on that EVERY HISTORIAN AGREED.

All available film of Jeffries ,shows a man laying back and countering his opponent.
Now,Jeffries may well have been more aggressive against Fitz and Corbett, but he did NOT utilise the incessant ,systematic pressure that Marciano employed .
The grainy film extant of Jeffries in ACTUAL combat does NOT show a man fast of hand or foot,dancing around in training does NOT count, especially when the film speed may not represent actual time.
So ,we have no way of knowing whether Jeffries was faster of hand or foot than Marciano,and reports of the punishment he shipped from older ,smaller men suggest he was no defensive master,indeed he took far more punches than Marciano ever did.

In closing ,try and stay on the subject and leave your hatred of Johnson home in bed, this is an interesting thread,which wont benefit from bigotry.

YOU BORE PEOPLE.