Prime Tua KO2 Prime Frazier. Discuss.

Tua hit every bit as hard as Foreman, in my opinion. Your argument is looking very weak, Ori. I'm not saying Frazier, at his best, loses this fight, but the reasons you're bringing up are the kind of "clutching at straws" logic that you'd expect from someone who doesn't really believe what they're saying.

I agree that, on paper, Tua is a bad matchup for Frazier. In reality, I wouldn't consider it that black and white. Frazier's speed and defensive skills being a primary reason, on top of his far more efficient offense. It's more likely that he beats Tua to the punch all night on the inside (a la Chuvalo) than it is that he gets stopped, in my opinion. Certainly the former isn't out of the realm of possibility, but the gulf in class makes me pretty confident in my pick.

 

Tua may have Foreman's power but he did not have his physical stature nor was his best punch the uppercut, but the left hook which Frazier was usually able to avoid with his bobbing & weaving. Frazier would actually be fighting a shorter man here and with Tua's plodding feet could be made to look very fast, keeping the left in Tua's face at all times.

 

Strong as Tua was, I wouldn't say he was stronger than Chuvalo who was a weight-lifter or even Oscar Bonavena necessarily. Frazier handled the two of them fine, and as the Chuvalo fight shows, Frazier did not need to push around his opponent in order to outfight him, his speed and skill did the job. Foreman was insanely strong, had no self-doubt in a firefight and had one of the most powerful uppercuts of all time. Frazier thought he could take him out with one left hook and ended up walking into a buzzsaw. Tua wouldn't have a pleasant night against Foreman either.

Sure, but peak Frazier had incredible conditioning and was able to recover from taking a punch. Can Tua even catch Frazier with a solid left hook without being beaten to the punch 2 or 3 times? I wouldn't count on it. Tua would be hesitant when the body punishment starts piling up. He barely opened up on Byrd in fear of Byrd countering to the body.

Frazier handled Bonavena fairly easily in the rematch. Tua was frustrated by fighters like Jazzy Jeff Wooden. Wooden, a 200 pound journeyman, was able to take Tua's best punches and outworked him. Tua had to get set to punch, and with his plodding feet this process took its time. Ibeabuchi stood right in front of him throwing punches at all times, and Tua wasn't able to get him out of there. Ibeabuchi, while an impressive physical specimen, was very much an inexperienced fighter and beat Tua simply by matching his strength. Frazier had an excellent left hand and his footwork and head movement would look very fluid against Tua as opposed to an Ali against whom Frazier was forced to take some to land some. Tua would stand frozen from the sheer speed of Ali and wouldn't be able to keep up with him at all.

No he doesn't unless he comes into the fight a fat slob. Let Frazier work a heavy bag for 12 rounds and I guarantee he would throw thousands of punches, but an Ali was a bit more elusive than an Ibeabuchi and most of the men fell under Frazier's relentless attack before he could reach such high numbers. He also didn't just throw wild shots but went for quality and accuracy instead of quantity.

 

Frazier has great head movement? The same Frazier who got tagged by practically everyone? Its predictable, Frazier's defense is his attack and if he backs Tua up he'll take his power away somewhat and brind the pain on him, but Joe is still liable to get knocked silly around the ring

 

Frazier would not need to swarm Tua the way he did Ali or Ellis. You're bound to get tagged when you fight as aggressively as Frazier did against sharp punchers. I think we'd see a repeat of the Chuvalo performance as Frazier recognizes Tua's strength along with his advantages in speed and even reach. Tua would land some but he wouldn't land solidly enough, I don't think.

 

THere was only the one guy who gave Frazier trouble worth mentioning, that was George Foreman. Everybody else was on the recieving end of trouble.

 

And in a H2H we're talking peak vs peak, right? So forget about the Foreman fights. eak Frazier is a slick(for a powerful HW) and fast(for a powerful HW) and 8/10 he'll suffocate Tua, who won't be allowed to set himself and is too limited technically to deal with it.

Your point is clearly an obvious one, that a come forward fighter is playing a dangerous game against a man as murderous as Tua, but thats looking at it on paper very plainly. Frazier is one of the best HW's ever, technically. As well as being a muderous puncher himself, incredibly durable, tough and driven.

It'd be a scay fight for a Frazier fan, he may go down at some point, but he outworks Tua every single round otherwise