Prime Tyson and Prime Dempsey

I personally favor Dempsey over George Foreman and even Joe Louis, so Jack is no pushover. I, like Mike Tyson himself, am pretty much in awe of the Mauler, for several reasons:

a) Dempsey had dynamite in both hands, enough to floor modern-heavyweight-sized men with one punch.

b) His punches were varied: he first decks Willard with a left hook and finishes Firpo with a right hook. He floors Tunney with a bulling combination.

c) Giving up many pounds in itself was never a problem for Jack, as can be seen in his signature fights.

d) Dempsey was not simply a wade-in brawler. He had two modes: seek-and-destroy and box-and-seek-the-opening (McGrain). He knew all the tricks of the trade, and very well. This is why I favor him over the one-mode Foreman.

e) He had a great chin, great recuperative powers and a cool head under fire. See Round 1 against Sharkey. And against Firpo and Brennan, he calmly, inexorably, turns the tables. This to me is the mark of nothing less than a great fighter. This is why I favor him over Louis, whose jaw I think would break before Dempsey's.

f) Dempsey was no weakling. His upper body is impressive, even after years of looking at steroid-inflated specimens. He could hurt any man, including Valuev.

g) In a fantasy match, Tyson would truly be fighting his master, his idol. How much would this weigh on his less-than-stellar psyche?

h) Dempsey's crouching style could pose problems for Tyson, who could find himself slicing air with hooks over a ducking Dempsey. Tyson would have to come close, bang a right to the body and come up with the uppercut...and be open to a sneaky counter on the money.

Having said all this, I still favor Tyson who, as mentioned, is a larger, faster version of Jack. But I think this is too close to dismiss as a "foregone conclusion".

 

I'm simply replying to the claim that Dempsey would refuse to meet Tyson because Tyson was "black". Obviously Tyson would refuse to meet Dempsey, because Dempsey was too good.

"Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared shitless of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

- George Benton

 

That was a great post and a pleasure to read. I still think Dempsey would be in real trouble against Tyson as you seem to yourself, but I'm thinking it's more like 80/20 Tyson.

Dempsey-Louis would have been interesting, for sure.

 

Foreman gets a pass for losing to Ali, Dempsey gets a pass because he lost to Tunney but Tyson gets a demerit for losing to a fellow ATG in Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis?

Tyson was supposed to fight Morrison but Tommy Morrison was HIV positive as a result the fight never came off.

Tyson never fought Bowe because by the time Bowe was a relevant fighter, Tyson was in jail. There was talk after prison but the fight never really came off. Due to both sides.

Foreman is fortunate never to have fought Mike Tyson because this myth of his second career would have reduced him to a sideshow. Tyson in 1990 after he lost to Douglas had his eyes set on the title. He fought two gimme opponents then he fought a Donovan "Razor" Ruddock a fighter who was heads and shoulders above George Foreman as a credible opponent. One that Bowe, Holyfield and Foreman himself didn't any part of. That crap about George Benton claiming that Tyson afraid goes out the window simply because instead of Foreman he fought a younger fresher and more credible threat in Ruddock. If he fought Foreman, he'd be criticized for taking on an over the hill opponent like he is with Larry Holmes in some circles.

Mathis was his second comeback fight after a 4 year layoff- simply a stay busy fight.

Not sure about Tua though.

BTW its funny you mention Alex Stewart, considering what Stewart did to Foreman's face during thier fight I'm not so sure I'd be talking. In addition, if you were to take the 10 best names (not fights) but names in Foreman's win column Alex Stewart would be there. Go ahead, Try it. See if I'm wrong.

As for the thread, Tyson beats Dempsey via KO

 

no he did not :good

 

Tyson by ko in 2. Bigger, stronger, better chin, just as fast if not faster, and harder hitting.

 

Waiting for UpwithEvil's reply

 

Thanks. Tyson should win. The tougher question is, Would he?

Dempsey-Louis, or Dempsey-Marciano, is harder to call.

Tyson seems to me the unwitting era groundbreaker. He brought together qualities that were the province of only the mightiest legendary heavyweights. Before 1986, only Dempsey and Louis were established fast, two-handed powerpunchers. Jeffries, Baer, Marciano, Liston, Frazier, Foreman...they could hit, but they were also slow and/or predictably reliant on one hand.

The 20-year-old sensation made it normal for a new generation to believe that large muscles could produce power and speed. Yore, bulking up was
disdained as becoming "muscle-bound". Certainly Dempsey and Louis didn't need to look like The Incredible Hulk to deliver the goods. This was one reason why Liston was so scary for his time: a powerhitter with huge muscles and some speed. Wow! The talk was of his perhaps being the best of all time.

Well, at 5'11", 218 lbs., Tyson was a new, improved version of them all. He viciously tore through whatever stood in front of him. He could work with the stylists and soundly beat them as well. The way he annihilated the best the world had to offer was every bit as impressive as the fabled destructions of Willard, Schmeling, Walcott and Patterson. And he did it "old-school", down to the look.

If only, after Cus, he'd had something to fight for, he could have legitimately sat on the throne of the greatest.

 

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I find it really hard seeing Dempsey lose a dog fight like this.

Oh sure, I can see him getting rocked with those hooks, but succumbing from them? Nah, I see him getting back up and landing his own bombs, crippling Tyson up close and generally out-doing him.

Tyson would have success, but he would not finish Jack. That's how I see it.

Fight happens tomorrow and I put my money on Jack.

 

Unlike Crude talentless Firpo, When tyson puts dempsey down he will stay there. there will be no typewriter to save jack in this one. Ok I was kinda being sarcastic with that response.

 

Good post, can't say i disagree with anything.

 

Unbelievable post.

 

Actually he gets a demerit for losing to Buster Douglas, but as every Tyson apologist knows (and their numbers are legion), "Tyson was past him prime!"

Evander Holyfield, an overblown cruiserweight, finally lured Tyson into the ring and delivered the beating serious boxing analysts knew was coming. Holyfield, of course, was a Dempsey-sized fighter in his mid-30s on the downside of his career, but Tyson was an overhyped front-runner, so being an overblown cruiserweight was apparantly enough.

More tough luck for Tyson; Lou Savarese, Buster Mathis Jr, and Bruce Seldon got pushed to the front of the line.

Tyson never fought Bowe because he didn't want to fight top contenders. The only reason Holyfield managed to squeeze himself in to Tyson's "Big Bucks Bum of the Month" clubs between Bruce Seldon and Francois Botha was because Tyson's handlers figured Evander was shot, having taken some bad beatings against Bowe and loser of 3 of his last 7 fights.

Tyson wasn't serious about fighting, and didn't have the determination to beat elite heavyweights. His entire claim to fame remains cleaning up Larry Holmes' scraps before a new generation of more serious heavyweight fighters rendered him irrelevant.

Tyson is fortunate to have never fought Foreman, as another loss on his overpuffed record would make it even harder for his steadfast defenders to come up with appropriate excuses for his failures. Tyson was much better off fighting the also-rans he feasted on after journeyman Buster Douglas exposed him for the world to see.

"World Champion ******"

Based on what? That stunning knockout of fat cokehead Michael Dokes? Teaching Bonecrusher Smith a lesson?

The only reason Ruddock is granted any credibility today is because of his performances against the overrated and overhyped Tyson. Once the Tyson fights were over, Ruddock went back to being the same middling contender he always was.

Tell me, if Razor was such a killer, what's his best career victory? I'm sure Bowe, Holyfield, and Foreman were shaking in their boots.

Oh! Well! I didn't know we could throw it out the window!

What made Ruddock such a threat again? Beating Greg Page?

If he fought Foreman he'd get KTFO'd. Tyson knew it too, despite your attempts at window-throwing.

Why not? George Foreman became heavyweight champion two years later. The sun never rose on the day Razor Ruddock beat a better fighter than Michael Moorer.

I think you're terribly wrong. Alex Stewart's "name" doesn't even compare to Gerry Cooney's. We're talking about a man with KO wins over prime Joe Frazier and Kenny Norton who came back in his 40s to KO Michael Moorer; a win over Alex Stewart doesn't even mean as much as a win over Dwight Braxton.

 

Then why did he take on a whole slew of top 1980s heavyweight contenders

Arnt you the clever one. I would say more like Tyson cleaned up the prime versions of these heavyweights, while holmes beat these guys when they were embryos and holmes struggled far more with them. Also tyson fought and knocked out the top heavyweights that larry holmes avoided like Tubbs and Thomas.

 

Actually Dokes was off the drugs which is why just one year earlier he took holyfield 10 life or death rounds, while ruddock blew the same version out in 4

After Watching Stewart-Foreman, Foreman-Morrison, Foreman-Savererse and Tyson-Stewart and Tyson-Saverese how could you EVER pick foreman over tyson?


Foreman went toe to toe with lou saverse for 12 rounds and couldnt put a dent on his chin. tyson put saverese out in 1. foreman couldnt floor a glass jaw morrison. Tyson had a iron chin, no way does foreman have the reflexes anymore to put tyson away.


1991 foreman was WIDE OPEN defense, slow as molasses...he would be ripe for a terrible beating by mike tyson. Tyson will hit foreman with a 4-5 punch combination and foreman will go down and out. Foreman could be hurt, michael moorer nearly floored foreman putting him on rubbery legs.