Prime Tyson vs prime Foreman

Yeah this list is just jam packed with 35-45 year old world record holders
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting

Most of these are mid 20’s-early 30’s tops ie when humans are in their physical prime. Note the absence of 40 year olds? Myth busted. You and the other clown are speaking ****.

 

People are underestimating Tyson quick feet, they’re getting carried away thinking ‘uppercut’ but Foreman was able to read Frazier’s constant come forward in the same rhythm pressure style and time him, and push him, Tyson has unpredictable bursts and quick feet and is more explosive and surprising than Frazier, I don’t know if Foreman can deal with the sudden bursts of explosiveness and Tyson on the outside and all of a sudden on the inside, with that said I think Foreman could deal with it and get Tyson out of there, I’m just saying don’t write Tyson off just because of the Frazier fight

 

A study, published last year in the International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance, computed the lifts of elite powerlifters (competitors in the World Championships from 2003-17) and weightlifters (competitors in the World Championships and Olympic Games from 1998-2017) to determine when they were at their best. The average peak age for powerlifters was 35 and weightlifters was 26.

 

And the standard deviation for the powerlifting age was plus or minus 7 years.

And that corresponds to the observation that the strongest guys I have ever seen were all in their 30s to early 40s, at youngest late 20s.

 

Most Olympians are not competing in strength sports.
And I never said Foreman isn't stronger than Tyson, I just said 90's Foreman was stronger than 70's Foreman

 

Yeah Griffo you are wrong.
Anyway, have you seen the threads where good guys are being banned for minor offenses?
Yet you are unilaterally verbally abusive.
The forum has largely been cleansed of vicious guys attacking folks when their ego is hurt because of a simple disagreement that should mean nothing.

It is not decent & done anonymously at a distance, not brave.
Stop calling people names like an angry child.

 

Where am I wrong?

They were making unfounded statements that peak human strength was after the age of 35 which all weight lifting world records show to be clearly incorrect and unfounded.

And if you think what I said was vicious you need to get a thicker skin. Go read virtually any thread on World, Classic and Lounge and you’ll read worse. Anyway you’re not my mother so spare me the dressing down. My “viciousness” can be easily avoided. It’s just an ignore function away.

 

It doesn't matter if 90's Foreman was physically stronger than 70's Foreman. 70's Foreman is still way stronger than any version of Tyson and would have an easy time pushing him back, or maneuvering him into the position he wants to set up his brutal uppercuts. That's why this is a bad matchup, not because of how much weight Foreman can lift (Tyson fought several physically powerful boxer), but because he can utilize that strength effectively in the ring. He knew how to throw his weight around and make a guy fight his kind of fight at his preferred distance.

This content is protected

Tyson is the opposite. He was good when he could press inside and set up fierce bombs with his head movement and hand speed, but when an opponent refused to fight at his pace and stood their ground, he struggled.

Any short aggressive fighter with short arms will have a hard time with any version of Foreman due to the clash of styles. Point blank period. I am not saying Foreman wins no matter what every time, but you simply cannot overlook the clash of styles and pretend like Tyson won't have an extremely hard time overcoming Foreman's physicality to get close enough for his style to work.

 

But theres enough pure one-two punch power examples of where 1 or 2 punches ended it...

Carl Williams
Frans Botha
Ettiene
Orlin Norris
Savarese
Berbick
Spinks
Marvis Frazier
Ferguson
Tubbs

Thats a hell of a resume even discounting the combination accumalative knockouts.

I think there is a substantial style differential in Tyson with Smokin Joe...and its a much harder fight to predict.

I think a peak Mike chops down Foreman in 10

 

I am saying you are wrong for being verbally abusive,
Against guys that were not mean or nasty to you there,
Nah my skin is plenty thick. I would not be personally hurt if you had called ME names & cursed at me.
But I would condemn such immoral & unbrave anonymously & from a distance) hate sppeech.

You did not deny you were vicious, you just said some others were worse.
Yeah so what? Mugging someone is not as bad as murder, but bothe are wrong.

And if you check the record it is easy to see I have thousands of posts for years, so know the forums very well.
Again while some people are malicious, petty & hateful: most have not been.
The *vast majority* of people here are oveerwehlmingly decent & resepectful.
And things have gotten bettter over the years.
Many of us CARE about the quality & credibility of this forum-& good posters not being driven off by abusers & trolls.

So it is better to condemn & stop Hate Speech. Not just ignore it.
I hgave you the courtesy of asking you to stop first, not reporting you.

 

The Achilles heal of a crouch fighter has a name and its name is George Foreman.

 

Yep I agree with this. In terms of styles Foreman has a clear advantage. He framed opponents, maneuvering them into positions where he could land and we all know Tyson could be tied up and man handled to make him less effective, Holyfield did it, Lewis did it, Douglas did it etc.

Tyson's style was to utilise that fantastic head movement to draw leads where he could then explode with a counter. Foreman wouldn't look to just throw from the outside trying to catch Tyson coming in and leaving himself exposed. He'd maintain distance, extend his gloves use them along with his forearm to push Tyson's head, shoulders and chest putting Tyson out of position where Foreman could land his slower power shots. Tyson would find himself being turned, redirected and pushed back and struggle to land his usual viscous combinations as he's constantly being pushed off balance and out of position.

Sure Tyson always has a punchers chance, he's that fast and that powerful but unless he stops Foreman early the clash in styles which clearly favours Foreman would see him slowly take too many heavy shots, see him get frustrated and ground down, before being stopped.

 

Tyson if he can't do it in 5 rounds Forman

 

Excellent break down. The irony of the marketing for Tyson as this savage brute and fierce boxer is that he often looked very uncomfortable and struggled when guys got rough and physical with him. As You pointed out, he needed space to use his head movement and polished technique. You can't generate speed for those flashy combinations if a truly brutish and very hands on physical athlete like Foreman is disrupting your rhythm with non stop rough house tactics, repositioning you, pushing, clubbing, etc.

Tyson was actually a very scientific and technical fighter and his style does not mesh well with rough guys like that, as we saw with Holyfield and Lewis, even the mediocre Smith had no trouble tying him up and pushing him back. Foreman is not going to be backing up, pawing, and using a quick snappy jab with footwork to stay away from Tyson, he'd be in ring center forcing Tyson to respect his power on the front foot and daring him to get impatient and rush in so that he can time him with that sledgehammer left, clubbing hooks and uppercuts. You can't counter a guy who is staring you down and repositioning himself with a big reach advantage and is willing to let you lead first. If Foreman was just some mindless come forward aggressive guy throwing hayemakers obviously Tyson would time him and take him out. I think that's why a lot of people just look at the zaire fight and overlook all the other times Foreman combined high ring IQ with a very physical rough house style to maintain control of the opponent.

 

Cus was convinced a fighter of Tysons style (including Tyson) could never beat Foreman. This despite the fact that Foreman went the distance against average joes like Peralta, who of course fought stylistically different but was in no shape or form the fighter Tyson was.

Here's the background:

"Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road."