PRIME Tyson vs PRIME Holyfield...Who wins this and Why ?

I was pondering this before a few months back and remembered watching both fights. I realized it was a past prime Mike, but I believe that not even a prime Tyson beats Holyfield because of guys strength and inside fighting.

Mike Tyson is a tremendous swarmer who is a master at getting in the pocket. But he gets confused as a great pocket fighter also, which he is not. Tyson would sometimes get too lazy up close especially in clinches.

I've made the comparison before that Tyson was a point guard who had amazing handles and could always get to the basket at ease and score. But if you pass it to him while he's already in the paint or if he has to post up, then he's not as great.

 

The biggest difference between the two men when they fought in '96 was discipline and focus.
Bert Sugar picked Holyfield to win back in '91 already, justifying it by saying that Holyfield had focus and listened to his corner, whereas Tyson didn't listen to anyone.
In hindsight, he made a great point.

Tyson, in my opinion, is the physically most gifted heavyweight I've ever seen. But at the elite level, you need more than that. Hunger, discipline, focus and the ability to rise to the occasion all count at least as much, if not more so.

Of course, this is a 'prime' matchup, meaning that we have to take the best version of Tyson, which means he has Rooney in his corner. I think the 1988 version was peak Tyson.
In Holyfield's case, his prime version isn't so easily identified. He was great in 1991, but physically stronger and more experienced in say, 1994. Perhaps he was just otherside of prime then, hard to say.
I'll pick the 1990-1991 version that beat Douglas and Foreman.

Now, there are some key differences between Holyfield in '91 and '96. In 1996, he had put on a lot of muscle, making him physically stronger, and his punching power seemed to increase a bit as well.
Holyfield who warred with the likes of Dokes and Cooper could punch, no doubt. But he wasn't a heavy-fisted fighter. He hit Dokes and Cooper with his best shots over and over, but had to settle for wearing them down.
That's not a negative, but just an observation.

Holyfield was a beaufitful, sharp puncher and one who could throw 5,6,7 punch combos and do it round after round. His conditioning was amazing. He had some really sneaky counters as well, like the right hand and left hook. His hand speed and reflexes allowed him to time and counter punches excellently.

He also always walked into the ring with a gameplan, and he was very good at executing it. People always felt that Holyfield made a mistake when he forsook his boxing skill and brawled. I'm not so sure that was ever a bad thing.
He had tremendous confidence in his ability to absorb punishment and come back, and if it's one thing he always did, it was fight back hard. The man didn't know how to give in. He also had tremendous powers of recovery...for all intents and purposes, he was done and dusted against Cooper, but he fought back incredibly well. Same in the Bowe 1 fight...he was virtually done, but throught self-belief and raw courage, he came back fighting.

I'm not sure I really need to discuss Tyson at length, as he is one of the most analyzed fighters in history. I don't think it's any real secret that he lost something when he fired Rooney, and also beat the only other name worth talking about at the time, Spinks.
Maybe it was the hunger and desire.
Team Tyson, that is, Jacobs, Cayton, Rooney and of course, Tyson, were on a mission before he conquered the world. It was a driven and focussed unit.
They were driven and eager to prove Tyson to be the best, which he duly did. But the team gradually fell apart, Tyson started believing in his own hype, and his life outside the ring unravelled.

One can call it an excuse, but any fighter who goes through all of that loses something, and while Tyson was still an extraordinary physical specimen, his lack of direction and focus became all too evident.

But at his best, Tyson really was something. Call his opposition mediocre if you want, but it's the way he tore through these solid fighters that was the impressive part. Put simply, if he didn't knock an opponent out, it was considered a failure.
Look at how disappointed he was even when he dominated Tucker. Almost anyone else would have been more than happy to unify the titles, but because he didn't win spectacularly, Tyson was miffed, because he knew he could have done better. It's a fascinating insight as to what his team and himself expected of him back then.

That's not to say he was perfect...he got tied up too easily sometimes, lost focus at times in fights, and got frustrated now and then. Tyson even at his best could look ordinary sometimes.
But again, the big difference between the two men in '96 was discipline and focus...Holyfield had it, Tyson didn't. Not really. He expected easy victories, and Holyfield had always regarded Tyson as his biggest challenge. Both were past their best, but one rose to the challenge and the other didn't.

Tyson at his best had that discipline and focus. But I can't vote on this poll. Holyfield would in my mind, always be a very difficult opponent for Tyson. I think it could go either way, maybe leaning a bit towards Tyson, but Holyfield would be a hell of a fight at any point in his career.

 

Prime Tyson TKOs Holyfield in 7.

Holyfields got 2 disadvantages here, he's small & when he gets hit cleanly he starts to brawl, in all honesty he would take a beating here, Tysons rapid fire combos would be too much.

1991 Tyson TKOs Holyfield between 8-10 rounds.

Tysons more one dimensional now, but he's coming off 2 tough fights with Ruddock which is great prep for a title fight. & he's still as quick with a concrete chin. Holyfields still small & still willing to brawl, but with Tyson a level below his prime, it's a much more competitive fight. May even go the distance, but Holyfield won't win.

The important thing to remember here is that pre prison Tyson was a world apart from post prison Tyson. Go back & watch the tapes of pre & post, note the amateurish technique of post, he's still got a good chin & power, but that's about all that's left.

 

Without headbutts, it would be close, and totally dependant upon Holyfeild's gameplan.

No way He'd KO Tyson. Holyfield wasn't the great puncher some of you revisionist seem to think, plus if he went for the kill, he'd give Tyson the opening he'd need to tear his head off.

But if he stayed outside he could probably win a decision. Maybe. He's the only fighter I can think of, besides Wlad, that I think would have a chance of doing so.

 

I would go with Tyson of the 80's since Rooney had him using all of his arsenal...which includes that Jab. Even Post Douglas I would take Tyson despite his lack of fluidity and his tendency to stand-upright at this point...but at least Richie had him in shape again and doing some things right...especially with the Straight-Right.

But after Ruddock II...not so sure unless they gave him a decent amount of time off...like 8 months even though Tyson himself said he did better when more active and kept in shape. But given what he said about how he felt after Ruddock II, I think Holyfield could take advantage of them.

Unlike the others who had him hurt, and I'll use that clip with Alex Stewart as well, Tyson is a true finisher and I think Holyfield stays hurt. He may get brave in coming back at him, and Tyson may be like, O' **** here we go...but I think Tyson catches him when Holyfield opens up and can finish him...but mostly during those specific years when he still had fight in him.

Cooper could punch very hard but he didn't have the Skill-set/attributes Tyson had.

I think Tyson could hurt him to the body...and he could use that Jab effectively which would set-up his offensive arsenal. And that UPPERCUT, which Bowe and Lewis both hit him with, I can see Tyson landing several times. Again, because of the height difference isn't that much and given Tyson was still able to land it on 6'5 Ribalta who Tyson was able to dip down lower than his actual height because he was pounding away on a fighter, although Tall, a fighter that weighed 211.

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Combinations

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Finish him

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When they actually fought, twice, Tyson actually hurt him...both to the head and body. Although the shot to the body...well, let Tyson tell you:

Time: 2:35
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpYCHzs6BLM[/ame]


ALSO NOTE HOW HE FELT AFTER THE SECOND RUDDOCK FIGHT. THAT IS PRIOR TO 2:35

 

Holyfield had a good style for Tyson. I just reckon Tysons speed would be too much

 

They fought in their primes and Holyfield beat him up twice.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-0cLS6rdis&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-0cLS6rdis&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

 

:rofl



TKO11

 

Can't believe all the Holyfield love. Obviously based off their actual fights where Tyson wasn't even close to his best form.

 

Right, but rarely will you ever see Tyson get that benefit of the doubt with say, Larry Holmes.

 

So true. Here's hoping for Tyson's stock to rise the more he redeems himself. :smoke

 

Both were out of their primes and its quite easy to tell:

Watch earlier fights with Tyson and Holyfield and then right away watch the first Tyson vs. Holyfield fight. You'll notice they are both past their best.

 

I think unless you were actually around in the late 80's & early 90's it's difficult to grasp just how good Tyson was. Even a post Rooney Tyson would not lose to Holyfield.

You just cannot compare post prison Tyson to pre prison.