Prime Tyson vs Prime Joe Louis

As much as I am a Tyson fan i gotta say, people here are either greatly over estimating his abilities or seriously under estimating those of the Brown Bomber

 

All the people acting like Louis is some master boxers are kidding themselves. They talk about Louis using feints.. good lateral movement.. and like he's a great counter puncher.. he's really none of those things and used none of those things and keys in his repotoire. I'm not saying he losses.. but the reasons people are giving is kinda funny.

 

Caught "Sports Century" hour special with Iron Mike from 2010. Very cool. He said something to the effect that D'Amato would go over strategy with him for all of these fantasy fights with past legends. He didn't elaborate much, wonder what Cus thought about Mike fighting Louis. Anyway Mike said to Cus that he admired Holmes a lot, and Cus said everything you like about him I want you to despise. Interesting Tyson said his favorite career moment was Buster Douglass, probably because he felt which is true that losses can define a fighter as much as wins. Hardest fight was Ruddock. Didn't catch the interviewers name, but looked like the same guy that Mike was getting a little fresh with back in the day over a tv interview before the Botha fight I believe. Highly recommend the show though. But yes Tyson's punch resistance was insane he absorbed sickening punishment without going down.

 

agreed, and he would make it look easy... bigger,heavier,faster,stronger,tougher,hitsharder, stylistical advantage... tyson by ko early, louis could not run and tyson would ko him

 

Some people on this forum prety much don't know who Joe Louis was.

 

yeah janitor i know that he is on of your heros with jack dempsey too, but louis is overrated h2h, i think that even yourself think that a prime tyson would ko louis.

 

My take.

In terms of legacy he is rated pretty accurately by most people. His legacy has stood the test of time. Head to head he is starting to get a bit underrated, in part because his fights were filmed in black and white.

This is a guy who was one of the best finishers, if not the best finisher of all time. He was as vicious and menacing as Mike Tyson in his own right, and a lot more mentally stable .

I do think that he would beat Tyson, though I wouldn’t bet my mortgage on it, and I don’t place much importance upon my opinion.

 

honest opinion, yes sr.:happy

 

Tyson KO 1

 

Im back and forth on this one. Louis is about 3" taller with a 5" longer reach. Tyson is about 10 Lbs. heavier. Both men punch hard, Tyson has the better chin. Both men had quick hands but Tyson was quicker and had the quicker legs. Both men are stronger but IMO Tyson was stronger. Tyson was a faster starter but Louis had the better stamina. Louis had the better jab but the jab was never an important tool for Tyson... he was almost always the shorter man with the shorter reach.

 

I know who Joe Louis was. Ive been to his gravesite in Arlington. Lee Marvin was buried next to him. Anyway, Im on a Tyson kick lately... I think if Tyson is 100% he could stop Louis after going thru hell.

 

Tyson had a great jab and used it very effectively, especially pre prison.
He would use the jab to get inside, even out jabbing bigger guys. Hell
he outjabbed Lennox in round 1.

 

Joe Louis is over rated? What a low level we have sunk! Joe Louis was the most complete fighter ever to hold the hwt championship.

Yes he could box beautifully. Watch his bouts with Max Baer, Galento....he side steps, feints, blocks, slips, counterpunches, jabs...leads his opponents into crushing punches ...THEN goes in for the kill. There was very little Louis could not do in the ring and this s why he is rated as top two universally all time.

 

I was kinda waiting for this comment right after I posted... his jab wasn't bad but it wasn't one his best tools because bottom line... that would be a dumb fight plan. Sure, a shorter guy with a shorter reach can land some good jabs on a bigger and much slower fighter but against quicker fighters who are also tall with long reaches... the effectiveness of that jab will decrease.

Tyson is under 6' with a 71" reach and fought in an era of much taller HWs with much longer reaches. His primary game plan was to get inside... sure he may have thrown and even landed some good jabs on his way to getting inside, but he wasn't standing back jabbing guys into submission like Larry Holmes.

You're right though, he jabbed well but against the big HWs he fought it wasn't a big part of his fight plan. If he fought the likes of Orlin Norris (he did but it didn't last long), Chris Byrd, Dwight Qawi, and other smallish HWs... even David Tua, instead of bigger HWs... maybe he would have dominated with a jab. I don't think his jab would be a big issue vs. Louis.

 

Well asumming it is a 15 rounder. I truly think this is the most difficult hw matchup, I have agonized over it for quiet some time. Normally I can get a good sense of who would beat who because things like boxing flaws are quiet apparent to me. Joe Louis had a right hand bomb, but Tyson was never known for being knocked out early Even when he was well washed up he gave lennox lewis 9-10 or so good rounds and he was eating bombs for all of them from a far bigger, heavier man. A washed up Joe got knocked out by a young marciano in 8. Joe Louis has a lot of flaws that play into mike tyson's hands
-keeps his hands a bit low sometimes
-been known to be caught with punches in flash ko
-has a weak inside fight game
-is slow on his feet
-not small enough to eliminate tyson's advantage, but not big enough to punish him with his size
-Tended to duck down under certain type of punches

I always want to thick it don't take much for Louis to nail Tyson with something he never saw, but Tyson ducked down in a way that made it impossible to hit him cleanly with jabs and hooks. If he drops his hand to upper cut tyson, well he has the problem of dropping his hands against a faster harder left hook puncher. Joe was an expert of setting guys up. If you stand on an angle he'd punch you in the left shoulder or arm to spin you into his deadly right hand, I consider this to be his best finishing move. But Tyson stood square, it was impossible to finish off tyson that way.

it comes down to this for me. Schelming hit hard and knocked out lewis. Douglas wasn't a hard hitter per se, he could and did punch hard on that fight, he fought more like how I would expect Muhammad Ali to fight if he fought Tyson, dancing move, stepping in and out and nailing tyson then dancing away, pushing tyson off him when he got close and turning up the heat.

As great a fighter Louis is, I don't see a fighter on Tyson's resume who fights like louis and gives him trouble. I see 2 guys who fight like tyson and give louis trouble. Louis has trouble with slick guys with head movement. And anyone who wants to question that type in arturo godoy vs joe louis 1. You just have to watch the first 30 seconds to see why Louis would have trouble touching Tyson never mind nailing him. You have a guy fighting in a bit of a tysonesque stance, not exactly, but he weights as much as louis did (200) and wrestle like tyson in that fight. His main flaw was he didn't have the power. Louis won by SD the 1st time and ko the 2nd time round. Many felt he lost that first fight, and this was in Louis' prime. I have to conceed tyson would beat louis for this reason. Arguably a far inferior poor man's tyson may have beaten louis or came real close. Throw in Tyson's physique and power, prime vs prime, and I don't think Louis could win. Louis was clearly bothered by the head movement of Godoy and I saw times where if he was fighting Tyson, tyson would just clean his clock. Right around the 1 minute mark, Louis has his hand dropped for about 3 seconds when he is in the corner after missing 5-6 jabs in a row. If that was tyson, who had a guy in the corner with his hand down, in round 1, I don't think Louis would survive.

Louis likes to just throw volleys when guys come in, this may also work to tyson's counter punching favour. In fact, in hinsight, the marciano loss should have been expected, even prime vs prime. After rewatching the godoy fight those styles of fighters seem to real bother louis. Stick and move guys like conn and farr are 1 type. And the other type is the godoy duck down type guys. Just watch round 3 o the godoy it is basically like watching a weaker version of tyson beat up louis.

Louis never had a glass chin but it wasn't of forger iron either. He got dropped by some 2nd rate guys like 2 ton tony gelanto and buddy baer, and arguably braddock, although he was champ so I don't consider him 2nd tier. He also got kd and ko by schelming. Tyson certainly punched harder than gelanto and was way faster.

So I will say Tyson by a round 2 knockout. :good