Prime Tyson vs Prime Lewis

• That's fair enough and it's not beyond possibility that that could transcribe. What I will say though is that Lewis too would catch some heavy shots, especially early on, how would he deal with constant 'swarming' pressure?

• Not to make any excuses, but Tyson was noticeably started to slip by early '89 (the 1st Bruno fight was the first sign of chinks starting to appear). He'd obviously abandoned his training team, hitched up with that leach King and and countless aspects of his personal life were in tourmoil. He also started to headhunt more and moved in straighter as well as neglecting his headmovement and defense compared to previously. I get the point that Lewis hits harder than Bruno and is a whole class above talent-wise, however up against a focused, more offensively unpredictable version of Tyson from a few years prior to '89 would be a different kettle of fish to the fighter Bruno faced (who was easier to catch cleanly etc) Lewis certainly won't be connecting with every jab. I'll also add that I think it would need a vast accumulation of heavy punches to knock down/knock out a peak Tyson, wheareas Lewis was more suceptable to getting suckered by a one punch KO artist. Just a thought- Tyson had the better chin Lewis the calmer, more composed mentality. An interesting permutation.

• It'll definitely take a monumental effort from Lewis, but he'd stand a good chance, so long as everypart of his strategy comes into fruition, consistently.

• Fair do's mate. Peak-for-peak I've always viewed Lewis vs Tyson as a toss up. I think that stylistically as well as phychologically Holyfield would have Tyson's number at any point post '90 onwards. Before that I ain't totally sure. Liston vs Tyson would be a belter, but I think Sonny's ramrod jab, durability, rock solid chin, skills and refuse to be intimidated would see him take Tyson into the later rounds and drown him.

 

Agreed. Your post compliments mine very well on the same matter.

 

Indeed it can, but when one fighter goes his entire career against fighters that are almost all taller then him and have longer reach they generally know how to nullify that or fight effectively under those circumstances. Ray Mercer had success against Lewis operating behind his wonderful jab and closing the distance. In his prime Tyson could do this just as well. Suprisingly the jab is very effective against tall fighters, Tyson could hit Lewis and he could close the distance very quick. What was Lewis' reaction in such circumstances? Clinch or uppercut. Leaves him pretty open to a counter.

 

Some fine points, I was trying to put foward the counterpunch argument also. It's not ludicrous to think that Tyson would have these opportunities at least of engineering openings for the punch. :good

 

For starters, let me say i came in reminding people what Lewis brought to the table because a lot can't see past Tyson and his aura of invincibility pre Douglas or pre loss of Rooney or whatever they choose. Nobody needs reminding of what Tyson brings because his army of fanatics (No Pat, i'd never put you in this category or even close) commonly tell us Lewis would have no chance whatsoever etc, certainly Lewis is totally written off by his loyals than Tyson is written off by Lewis fans.

Tyson is certainly excellent at countering tall fighters and fighting effectively , but doing this to ordinary fighters who are half scared to death and doing it to a talent like Lewis are two different things. It's a good matchup. I'd say the bookies would label it a pick em' affair.

 

What worries me ever so slightly. Lewis' dangerous opponents whom he dispatched convincinngly were all tall men, around the same height as himself. Ruddock, Golota, and Grant. Others as well.

Mercer and Holyfield down the stretch of the rematch caused Lewis problems. Those guys were much shorter than Lewis. 6' 0" -6' 2".

At the end of the day its all about styles, not just height and reach.

I still favour Lewis, although not with confidence.

As I said earlier, Lewis would be winning this fight on the cards for as long as it lasted, no matter who won via KO, presuming it ends that way.

 

Indeed it would be a pick em' affair. I go for Tyson in this for a number of reasons but the main one by far to me is my belief of Lewis' inability to take Tyson's punches when they land. Lewis did take some hard punches off great punchers in his career but Tyson brought a combo of speed and power rarely if ever seen before. Also, I'm not a Tyson fanatic, I am a fan though but who isn't. Instead I'm simply a Lewis hater, I'll admit that. I can't stand the guy and his style. I'm biased and I know it. Oh well lol

 

Aha, well thanks for clearing that up and being honest mate.

 

The mental aspect you have added. Lewis had the confidence to go about his business positively, and capatalise on openings against Tyson. Others were strictly in survial mode, flicking out non effective punches to give the impression they were fighting back, thus more interested in the incoming rather than the outgoing.

 

Here's the peashooter version:

• Low punch connect percentage.

• Edge to Lewis. Over.

That's that.

Feeling lazy, guys. Later.

 

This suggestion of mine is born of trying to put myself in a young Lewis' big shoes. Tyson turned pro in 1985 and began to make a lot of noise. I remember reading Larry Holmes himself felt compelled to challenge Tyson to show him he could kick his butt. By 1986, Tyson was a champion, yet Lewis, who had sparred with him and, according to some accounts soon tamed his ferocity, for some mysterious reason decided to shoot for a second trip to the Olympics, in 1988. I just happen to believe that a champion at heart relishes taking on the biggest guy out there. From 1986 on, every time Lewis put his head on the pillow, he could have chosen to challenge Tyson, to prove to the world there was an even better fighter than Tyson out there, to become the most admired athlete in the world. But no. He went to his second Olympics. I just can't relate to that.

Of course Tyson was dominated as of Round 2. He had no wherewithal to fall back on. By 2002, he was a joke, a pretender, as genuine as a three-dollar bill. But, by the same token, in 1986, Tyson was the real article, a guy that put in the blood, sweat and tears of dedication to his game and had mastered it. When a proud (and just kayoed) Larry Holmes comes up and tells you you're a great champion, it's because you are.

Lewis landed some mean shots on Tyson in Round 1, the type that made his other opponents freeze and fall, yet even old Tyson didn't quit. My point is peak Tyson could take Lewis' best in the first stanzas, but, on the other hand, look at Round 1 again and notice how, save the aforementioned Lewis blows, Tyson had the initiative but was so inaccurate he could do nothing of consequence to the smothering Lewis. I believe peak Tyson would seize that same initiative and make it count. I can't see Lewis not getting tagged solidly early on and, by golly, when a guy with a questionable chin gets caught by a finisher like Tyson, that's all she wrote.

 

Tyson by UD. He would bully and swarm Lewis all night.

 

Prime Tyson KO's Lewis inside 8 rounds. The Tyson that was trained by Cus and Teddy Atlas with the amazing head movement would surely give Lewis fits. I'm still surprised that Lewis didn't finish Tyson earlier when they fought. Mike was way too heavy at 240 + pounds, too slow and couldn't do anything against a scared Lewis. Lewis backed up and jabbed a lot against Tyson when many expected him to try and Foremanize him like Frazier and get him out early.

 

I didn't say Tyson and Lewis would "apply the same strategy" in a mythical peak-vs.-peak bout. I'm saying prime Tyson would make his early hold on the initiative count.

You overestimate Lewis' genius in suggesting he knew all he had to do was wait out Tyson for one round. He began to dominate because he could. He was on the back foot in Round 1 because he had to be, despite some early-second bombs of his. In a boxing match, you either lead or react. Tyson was amazing in his ability to shock and disrupt in the first few seconds with powerful, unexpected blows in flurries. If a Tyson shell had Lewis on the back foot, a prime Tyson would do the same. If an on-Lewis couldn't blow out an old Tyson, he wouldn't blow out a peak Tyson. So Lewis, at best, is facing rounds here.

It is a recipe for defeat to fight Tyson backing up. He either knocks you out or piles up the points in workmanlike fashion. Lewis is not swift or elusive enough to stay on the outside piling up points without getting slammed in sneaky fashion. He was stopped twice by single shots that more or less caught him by surprise, a Tyson specialty. I believe Tyson's rapid firepower beats Lewis' offense out of the gate for an early kayo, or else gives him a commanding lead after the first 6 rounds. As mentioned on another thread, once Tyson had a commanding lead, you took your lumps to a decision loss.

It is evidence of Tyson's greatness that a Tyson-Lewis thread cannot see Lewis running away the victor, as seen before when pitted against other greats like, say, Foreman, Frazier and Johnson.

 

So, how do you see Lewis' winning strategy prime vs. prime?