Prime Tyson Vs Prime Liston.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Aug 1, 2014.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    the key to beating Mike Tyson was a great jab. Sonny Liston had one of the best jabs ever, and a strong one as well.

    The way I see this fight going is Mike Tyson doing what he always does, which is trying to attack Liston and get an early knockout. But Liston had a great chin, and forget the second Ali fight, he once fought a whole fight with his jaw broken. Tyson could catch him early on with some very solid hooks and uppercuts with his bob-and-weave, with great hand speed.

    Then Tyson gasses out, realizes he can't hurt Liston, and gets discouraged. No way Tyson would be the bully in this one. Liston was very intimidating.

    In round ten, Liston has weared down Tyson, and Mike is exhausted. Liston finishes him.

    Liston KO10.
     
  2. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Tyson would be too fast for Liston. Tyson was a fast starter with quick hands, a high workrate, and good footwork. He was also very durable.

    Sure, Liston had a few early KOs over some notable fighters like Williams KO3 and KO2, Folley KO3, and Patterson KO1 x2... but he didn't get going as quickly as Tyson did.

    Tyson stopped plenty of notable fighters early like Reggie Gross KO1, Marvis Frazier KO1, Alfonzo Ratliff KO2, Trevor Berbick KO2, Larry Holmes KO4, Tony Tubbs KO2, Michael Spinks KO1, "The Truth" Williams KO1, Henry Tillman KO1, Alex Stewart KO1, Buster Mathis Jr. KO3, Frank Bruno KO3, Bruce Seldon KO1, Lou Savarese KO1, Andrew Golota KO3 (later changed to a NC), and Clifford Etienne KO1.

    Tyson stopped some good fighter after the 4th round as well like Jose Ribalta KO10, Pinklon Thomas KO6, Tyrell Biggs KO7, Frank Bruno KO5, Razor Ruddock KO7, and Brian Nielsen KO6.

    Liston had a longer reach and he had a good jab. He'd need more than that.

    Tyson by stoppage.
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    liston was physically stronger, he had more stamina, he could box better, better defense and adaptability and a better chin
     
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Jim Carney- Author and Boxing Expert: Tyson vs. Liston

    Steel and concrete here. Perhaps the two heavyweight champions you’d least like to meet in a dark alley (although Dempsey, Foreman, Jeffries and John L. would also be especially fearsome in that venue). In addition, both Sonny and Iron Mike may have the same major flaws.

    Both are extremely strong and able to convert their strength into punching power. Tyson also has quicker than average hands, which added to his power and defensive ability. He is generally considered above Sonny in this area – Liston’s hand speed being rated average by some, above average by others. Tyson also had the edge in foot speed, though this might mean less than in other match-ups as both would basically be coming forward. A huge advantage for Liston would be his 13-inch edge in reach, whose value is enhanced by what many consider the most powerful left jab of all time. Liston would appear to have the edge in durability, though Tyson rates well here too. Many may feel that the fact that Mike hit the floor more times than Sonny relates to a weaker heart rather than a weaker chin.

    Both men are suspect in the matter of heart and there are specific parallels between them in this area. Each man folded when they met a man around their own talent level at their peak – Liston with Ali and Tyson with Holyfield. They also both were total embarrassments in their rematches with their exposers – Liston futiley chasing Ali then flopping down in round one and Tyson being outmuscled and outfought and then biting Holyfield twice before being disqualified in round three.

    In other areas of this match-up, the pair is close in weight, Liston’s height advantage is not significant to Tyson (virtually all of his major opponents were at least a little taller than Sonny). Though Liston and Tyson have fought men with the same main assets (strength and punch) that they face in each other, I don’t know that Mike ever fought an oncoming fighter who combined brawn and skill with a mercilessly glacial approach like Liston. Likewise, Sonny never met a man with Mike’s hard-hitting, ferocious (and in the beginning) bobbing and weaving attack.

    Tyson was probably the better schooled under Cus D’Amato and Kevin Rooney, but Liston’s trainer Willie Reddish was solid and Sonny had the benefit of training with and serving as a sparring partner for master boxer and former great heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles. Both men rate well in the skill department. However, after the deaths of D’Amato and Jimmy Jacobs and the firing of Rooney, Tyson grew notably sloppier in his ring techniques. Testimony to Liston’s skill is given by Muhammad Ali who notes that Sonny was smart in the ring. Overall, there wasn’t much difference in the quality of foes each man met and beat.

    Both Sonny and Mike were hard trainers but they were also capable of neglecting training because of overconfidence. Neither was susceptible to cuts and neither had a stamina problem that some fighters with brawny arms had to deal with. Both were equally good at psyching their opponents out.
    In this dream matchup, the pair begins by competing with each other to intimidate. Tyson talks of dire consequences for Sonny and gets the famous Liston stare in return. The battle is a nip and tuck smashing war from the beginning. Tyson goes low to the body and switches to uppercuts while Sonny stabs with his awesome jab, sometimes adding left hooks and occasional right crosses to the mix. The battle swings back and forth. Despite the fact that Mike’s short arms and more or less equal strength should give him an advantage in the infighting. Sonny dominates here. For some reason, all Mike usually does in close is hold on, sometimes even grabbing the other party and holding even when he is winning an exchange.

    During his career, Tyson folded in a number of different circumstances, including incidences when he was being overpowered. Liston, on the other hand, usually only had trouble (and only gave in against Ali) when he was fighting men with styles confusing to him. In brawn to brawn confrontations he was always a man’s man. He flattened powerful Cleveland Williams after Williams had broken his nose at the start of one of their bouts. Zora Folley hit him 30 straight shots against the ropes – and then Sonny steamrolled him. Sonny also went through one of his three fights with Marty Marshall with a broken jaw. I don’t think Mike would fare that well in these situations. That’s the difference between the two and that’s why I pick Liston by a late round kayo.
     
  5. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    battle of the bullies, who would intimidate who, Tyson faster, Liston has the reach but I think this would boil down to who hurts who first and how the hurt party reacts...could it be a quicker version of Leotis Martin and his inside attack or a quicker version of Holyfield 1
     
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    liston wasn't intimidated by anyone while tyson admitted he would be intimidated by liston
     
  7. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Sag, very good analysis! A couple comments & questions:

    1) They were both past their primes when they acted in unethical, ugly ways.

    2) Liston had at least 3 incidents, including Ali, when his gloves blinded opponents, right?
    Surely this must be counted against his heart & toughness.

    3) Was Liston's opponents as good as Tyson's? I have downgraded my rating of him since they were NOT so good overall. Tyson's opponents at his peak, as discussed in a very detailed thread, were pretty good, at least as good as pre-exile Ali.
    Tyson's opponents later including Holyfield & Lewis I give him less credit for, since he lost.
     
  8. willcross

    willcross Well-Known Member Full Member

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    One of the few people I would pick to beat a prime Tyson
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I always felt that Liston was the ideal stylistic foil for Tyson.

    It would have been interesting indeed to see whether I was right!
     
  10. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Liston destroys Tyson in one. Sonny would have too much of everything for the one dimensional Tyson.
     
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  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    good post. who would u place ur bet on?
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    anybody who says liston doesn't have heart needs to watch his fights with cleveland williams.
     
  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It is hard for me to make a choice, I can see a good case for either one of them.

    3 accidents in top fights? Maybe-but if this is an unusually high % of events, & when Liston was struggling, it seems very suspect. Why have I not heard of this at other times,or a boxer doing this, accidentally or not, multiple times, let alone in close fights or when losing?

    Liston has the better wins? I do not know, maybe. We cannot take Patterson for granted, boxers are supposed to trouble sluggers, but I cannot see FLoyd troubling Tyson either.
     
  15. kovalevtheGoat

    kovalevtheGoat The Chelyabinsk Machine banned Full Member

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