Prime Vitali Klitschko vs prime Larry Holmes

Holmes lost to both of them - Tyson and Holyfield but it could be argued that Holmes was not prime- Yet Norton was at the tail end of his career when he fought Holmes- Earnie still had some Pop but besides power, Earnie had already lost to ordinary fighters- you could argue weakly however that Cooney -Witherspoon -Weaver were better but Cooney never fought past 8rds and very doubtful- Weaver was a 19-8 trial horse underdog when he surprised Holmes with a battle and gained confidence but NO REMATCH- I don't think anyone Larry fought in Holmes prime were near as good as Vitali or Vlad in their respective primes- Ali was past it-Norton was past it(no rematch) Weaver was not yet at his best (no rematch) - even the fighters Holmes avoided- Thomas-Page-Dokes-Coetzee-Tate- were not as good as the 2 brothers - I can not count Evander or Tyson because they were post prime Holmes

 

Lol

 

Mendoza...

Vitali might well win, but I also disagree with your reasoning on points not yet mentioned.

1) Holmes was also weakened by the low blows. Joked after the fight that he was going to celebrate with his wife that night-& he was (s)explicit about what he meant-but now would not.
Cooney really did not have a right hand-Frazier's was much more active. This always limited him.
I do not think Cooney would have won unless he landed a very unlikely haymaker.

2) Now Williams may well have deserved the decision against Williams.
Though Holme winning widely on 2 judges scorecards was unfair.
Cobb amused as ever...[url]https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-05-21-sp-7844-story.html[/url]

But there is no question whatsoever, in this or numerous other news reports, that Holmes was well past his prime by this fight.
Mills Lane was in the ring & echoed what everybody knew.
He was taking soft touches for a couple years-the last time he was arguably still prime was a fight some thought he deserved to lose-but likely pulled out with his legendary late rally-against Witherspoon, a full 2 years earlier.

But that was 5-20-85!
Most everyone agrees the latest he can be considered prime is Witherspoon.
RECANT on using Spinks as the benchmark of his deterioration!

 

What's funny?

 

You thinking Cooney is a better boxer than Vitali

 

I explained myself. Now it's your turn...

 

You can't answer, can you?

 

I can. I'm just not.
Your argument is laughable, hence why I laughed at it.

 

You're cowering away from an argument YOU started , so i don't believe you could explain yourself even if you wanted to. You've been on the forum all day long. You obviously have nothing better to do , so back up your claim ??

 

I didn't start it I just laughed at you pal.

Vitali Klitschko is clearly a better boxer he has hardly lost 7 rounds in his career and has outboxed master boxers such as Lennox Lewis and Chris Byrd.
The difference between Klitschko ring IQ and Cooney's is laughable. Look an old Klitschko toys with Chisora, with one arm.
The difference between the footwork between the pair of them is insane, it's like not even close the tall, Vitali's feet are much better, textbook, use less energy and also keeps him safe, whilst he uses his height better.
Klitschko has a higher KO percentage, as he's more skilled. He gets people from angles, he gets power shots off at range and turns people, he has much better understanding of how to survive and clinch without much issues and uses both arms. Not just his left.

Klitschko is clearly the superior boxer.

it's fine, you won't believe me though because you hate everything to do with the Klitschko's.

 

Hate has nothing do to with it. i was a fan of Vitali , i said he'd very likely beat Cooney but but im a realist.

The reality is Vitali was a converted kickboxer who never really transition over to a professional. Its why he always fought hands low and brought his punches up from his waist.
His punch technique was basic and unrefined. Keven Johnson made him look clumsy. You want a stat - here's one - Johnson made him miss 700 punches. Its a fact , look it up.
Vitali could barely hit a guy standing in front of him. A novice Joshua would blow Johnson away in less than two rounds and Cooney would get him out of there mid-fight.

Youre right about Vitali being able to walk short plodders onto his punches , he was good at that. So was Wilder when he first fought Stiverne.

What you're wrong about id Klitschko's ring IQ. If he had a high ring IQ he would have adapted in some way to protect his cut agasint Lewis.
We saw Fury make changes so his cut wouldn't get any worse against Wallin.
In fact the only two time Vitali needed to adapt was in two fights he lost. So thats not saying much about is ring IQ.

But i never mention ring IQ in regards to Cooney. I said he was a better boxer and he was. Better fundamentally. Textbook boxing by numbers.
Hand high , strong guard and decent head movement. Fluid jab and left hook combo. He did everything correct.

Viatli made mistakes. He didn't move his head or upper body which is important for a guy who keeps his hands low. Such flaws in his game is why old slow Lennox made mince meat of of his face.

Cooney being a sound and technically proficient boxer is why he was able to deliver one of the best left hooks in the game.

Vitali had two punches , a 1-2. Neiter were as good as Conneys left hook.

 

Counter points.

1 ) The low blows happened later when Cooney was gassing. If this was a 10 round fight, cards could go either way. I think Holmes would edge it on my card if it were 10 rounds... But Cooney did reasonably well winning his share of rounds vs a prime Holmes thanks to his size and power. Vitali was way better than Cooney, so this fight matters in the fantasy match up.

2 ) Williams was close to beating Holmes, and Holmes got the nod partly because " you have to take it from the Champion " I do nothing Holmes punches would hurt Vital much, they didn't bother Williams who had a weak chin. I agree Holmes was slightly past it by this point.

3 ) Holmes lost the first fight vs Spinks, and has to deal with it. Past his prime, Yes? Vs a blown up light weight? Also yes. Holmes did win the re-match, and was robbed. I don't think Vitali at age 35-36 would have much trouble vs Spinks.

4 ) Being in your prime has something to do with being in shape. I think Holmes prime extend a little beyond Witherspoon, into 1984, but visibly slipped by 1985.

 

I voted Holmes UD over Vitali