PRIMES - CHAVEZ beats MAYWEATHER Jr

Oh, so now your not only saying his defense was the same as Sweet Pea's, but also better? I like that you brought up compubox numbers and championship rounds, but style similarities and differences cannot be explained by outcomes, or compubox numbers. The lackluster performances against Castillo should be the measure of how we should be comparing Floyd to Chavez, as this is the fighter most similar to the opponent that we can come up with. Is Floyd more similar to Sweetpea than Castillo is to Chavez? Answer that one honestly. The Sweetpea fight was one that, imo Chavez indeed lost. But at the same time sweetpea the fighter stood right in front of Chavez and made him miss.. This was a slower version of Chavez against a not Sweetpea that my not have been physically prime, but deffinately as focused and game as he had ever been in his career. When I think about Chavez, I think about a fighter who could only be defeated if you could make him stand in front of you, or make him move backwards. If Chavez was seen moving foward during a fight, he won. Opponents who would get caught up on the ropes would take punishment and be forced to flee.. One interesting thing to watch is Roger Mayweather in the shell defense, eating the right hand to the body when that was all that was available.. This is what Floyd offers in his defense that is more geared for counter punching. Rogers body was eaten up and he couldn't finish. The only way to defeating Chavez was making him move backwards, or standing with him in the middle of the ring. Nobody who ended up on the ropes ever had success against him. Even then, guys with big power ala Rosario and Roger Mayweather who landed very cleanly on him were not able to make him step back.

 

No. I think defense is a wash. Sweet Pea got hit more then Floyd but also threw more punches which leaves you open to be getting hit more. But make no mistake Floyd is a defensive genius. Pea's abilities were more natural, while Floyd is a technical master at not getting hit. Floyd could fight till he's 40 and still be a great defensive fighter much like James Toney for the simple fact his defensive skills dont rely entirely on his physical abilities. I never said they used defense in the same manner, I dont know where you got that from.

Please stop bringing up Castillo. Floyd Mayweather was injured in the first fight with Castillo. He had torn his rotator cuff while training. I believe Manny steward even said Floyds house reeked of BenGay. The second fight was clearly dominated by Floyd, who won the fight far more decisively then the score cards showed. The fight was 8-4 in favor of mayweather, but Castillo was done by the championship rounds. One point Mayweather lands 7 straight punches and all Castillo can do is swing widely and miss.

Floyd and Pea are defensive minded slicksters that are hard to hit. Chavez and Castillo are offensive minded pressure fighters that are easy to find but hit hard. Floyd possesses the same attributes that would give him the victory over Chavez that Pea possessed. He's fast and a defensive master. Are you saying Meldrick Taylor is on Floyd Mayweathers level? Or Frankie Randall?

Floyd Mayweather is no Roger Mayweather or Rosario. And if you look at Roger Mayweather shell, its not really comparable to Floyds defense. Its pretty inferior, Roger could be found against the ropes, Mayweather never is. He is levels above these fighters. Floyd nearly knocked a 154lb fighter out while counterpunching against the ropes. There is nothing in Chavez speed that would make me think Floyd couldnt stand in the middle of the ring and when rounds like he did against Oscar and Hatton. You people really overemphasis how much of the fight Floyd spends against the ropes compared to defeating his opponents in the middle of the ring. I dont know where this myth developed that Mayweather primarily fights off the ropes. I think he's just so excellent at it that people forget he routinly outclasses opponents in the middle of the ring.

 

I brought up the shell defense, in that only a few fighters, orthodox vs orthodox tend to go for the right hand to the body for some reason. Two fighters I have seen really work that punch successfully against that stance have been J.C. Chavez against Roger and SRL against Floyd Sr. Interestingly, SRL destroyed Floyds father with this punch against the same stance. Reaction time aside, it is open and can be exploited if you mix up the short right to the head with the right to the body as both Chavez and SRL have done.

I wouldn't compare Taylor, who's defense was his offense (a lot like Mosely) to the likes of Sweetpea. But the defenses are still far, far different. One is based on natural athleticism, and the other is more learned and honed.

Also, since when does ben gay do anything for a rotator cuff injury? I bring up the Castillo fight again, because if Floyd was the defensive master you say he was, he wouldn't have been hit by Castillo so much, he wouldn't have allowed himself to get crowded the way Hatton Crowded him.

Time for me to call you out on your claim the Floyd almost knocked Oscar out. There is a difference between being caught cleanly, getting buzzed and almost getting knocked out.. Do you think Floyd punched harder than Rosario did, or even his uncle Roger? I don't believe many would attempt to make such an assertion.

In the end, the prime Chavez was never beaten in his prime, and when he was beaten, it was by fighters who had some serious power with the exception of Sweetpea. I know technically, Chavez didn't lose to sweetpea, same as technically Floyd was never knocked down by Zab.

Another good comparison is a fight that really should happen, which is a match against Cotto. If Floyd can deal with Cotto's offense and win a decision, then I believe you would have a good argument. Funny thing, Floyd finally gets an opportunity to fight a very technically skilled fighter who saps the body with accuracy, but he goes for the paycheck, talks his little talk and fights a rather boring fight against Oscar, who is very cautious when it comes to getting hit and trading.

There is a big differnce between the types of fighters we are talking about. The one thing, the only thing that is a constant is that Castillo is a poor mans version of Chavez, who lets be honest, defeated Mayweather. There, I said it.. But I'm just being honest.. I'm also willing ot say that Sweetpea defeated Chavez when it comes right down to it, and that Mayweather was knocked down by Zab. Lets just keep it honest.

 

The defensive master like I say he is? atsch He is as evidence by his compubox stats, his ability to not be harmed during fights, basically his entire career of winning victory after victory alludes to this. He is probably the best defensive fighter of our time. BenGay is a painreliever, it stops pain, as to why after the fight Mayweather mentioned he was in alot pain throughout the fight and consequentially this was the ONLY fight in Floyds career where any fighter landed any leather on him. Like I said, if Floyd had a torn rotator cuff during his fight with Chavez, Chavez might have a chance. And jesus Hatton might be undisciplined and crude in alot of areas, but simply dismissing his hand and foot speed, his ability to crowd ANY fighter in the game? Did you see his fight against Kosta Tszyu? Kosta Tszyu landed bomb after bomb on Hattons skull and Hatton get pressing forward and ruffing Kosta up. It displays Floyds brilliance how he nuetralized alot of Hattons game by his ring generalship and actually beating Hatton on the inside.

Again you bring up the Castillo fight, while dismissing the Floyd injury and the fact Floyd challenged Castillo immediatly after and beat him clearly in the second fight, literally discouraging Castillo in the process.

Oscar was almost gone. He was fighting dead on his feet, the only thing that kept him up was he caught himself on Floyds body.

Also you keep talking about Roger Mayweather when Floyd is the far superior fighter. Roger's turtle shell as you call it was less mobile and rarely did Roger throw back against the ropes. While Floyd is a master of not only rolling punches but throwing counters off the ropes.

Julio Cesar Chavez never fought a Floyd Mayweather in his prime. Infact looking at his resume from 1989 to the Pea fight, none of those fighters would hold Mayweathers jock strap.

I'd give Cotto a far better shot at beating Floyd then Chavez. But at the time Floyd would have fought Cotto when he fought Oscar, he would have destroyed Cotto. It is only recently that Cotto has crafted himself any type of defense and so displayed fighting off the back foot against Mosley. Mayweather would have exploited Cotto, even now as shown in his fight against Gomez, he can be found by timed rights and uppercuts. Btw, Oscar certainly wasnt afraid of trading and pressing Mayweather in their fight. It was only Floyds jab and Oscars inability to penetrate Floyds defense against the ropes. Which pretty much shows that Floyd and team have every fighter figured out by the time the bell rings. Floyd beat Judah by pressing him, nowing Judah has a weak constitution when he's in a fight, beat Oscar by keeping most of the action in the middle of the ring and utilizing his jab and overhand right to torment Oscar, and by pot shotting Hatton in the middle of the ring then wrapping up. I have no doubt Mayweather and team wouldnt find the same *****s in Chavez's armor.

Sorry. Sweetpea Draw over Chavez was an outright robbery. The Castillo/Mayweather fight could have gone either way. Depending on whether you think Castillo's body work was landing, which most of it was falling against Floyds arms. I havent scored the fight in months, but I believe I had Mayweather by a round, and thats with a KD Floyd wasnt given that was clearly one.

 

You really think Oscar was almost gone after that right hand in round five? explain how he recovered so quickly and threw right back at Floyd in combonations then
Danny Rand your a ****ing ******.

 

atsch As I have said before we need to have ESB make a forum for all the little school bus children such as yourself to have a place to go