Primes: Hagler versus Pavlik?

No, because those guys would have nothing in common with Marvin other than height.

Whereas the guys I mentioned were some combination of:

1) Pavlik's height
2) Pavlik's power
3) Pavlik's jabbing abilities
4) Pavlik's style (staying on the outside throwing 1-2's)
5) Pavlik's durability

YOU YOURSELF described Pavlik's style as a tall, rangy guy with power in both hands and a good jab. Two of these guys fit this description quite well, and the third has the power and durability.

"Almost lost" = won.

Let's not get into Leonard-Hagler. There's enough controversy there to make your head spin. Trust me--the Classic section has enough of that craziness.

Height doesn't give you a "stylistic advantage", 2smart4u. Especially when you're both the same weight. It only becomes an issue when one fighter has shown trouble dealing with height in the past.

Hopkins didn't.

I said it's by far the more likely scenario. You can refuse to believe it, but it remains a fact.

 

There are few top old-timers as proven as Hagler, and few modern fighters as unproven as Pavlik.

Put a "Hopkins vs. Hagler" thread up, and you'll see a lot more controversy, because Hopkins has proved himself.

 

If you essentially agree with my position, then why the 10+ pages of argument deriding Hagler and emphasizing how Pavlik has a very good chance of beating him? :huh

 

It's only a stylistic advantage when the other fighter has problems with it. Hagler never did.

 

I agree that the purpose of a discussion like this is to look deeper, but that doesn't mean we should give Pavlik more chance than he actually has just to make things interesting.

If a middleweight version of Mayweather had won the title (a mobile boxer like Leonard), you'd have more of a case. But Pavlik has nothing that Hagler hasn't seen--and destroyed--before.

:scaredas:

Say it ain't so!

 

Mugabi had already stopped two guys rated in the Ring top 10 at that point. Also won every fight by knockout before he faced Hagler, for what it's worth. Pavlik and Mugabi are rather comparable, really, except that Mugabi failed to win the belt.

(If you don't believe me on Mugabi's ranked victims, I'll be glad to look them up again if you like, though it takes a little while.)

 

Right now Hagler would have to be the favorite.

 

:yep Sorry man that was kind of harsh ! PS PAVLIK doesnt resemble any of HAGLERs victoms to much degree ! And based on his stature power and guts he would be harder fight then you give him credit for ! In my opinion of cource !:hey :bbb

 

Your the only guy I ever heard claim being taller with a longer reach isnt an advantage if combined with the style PAV has !:rofl

 

He does have a style that would be a harder match up for hagler than people give im credit for but beating miranda (who hadn't really done anything) and taylor who most consider the most overated fighter of the past decade doesn't put you in the same league as hagler.

 

:good Correct to a degree but that was never my argument ! TAYLOR is also much better then given credit for ! people are forgetting about who he beat for the title !

 

:good Absolutly !!

 

Perhaps you're misjudging what I'm saying.

As long as two guys are the same weight, height doesn't make one better. The shorter guy fights shorter, the taller guy fights taller, and the winner is usually the one who uses his style and height more effectively.

Since Hagler generally had a lot of success using his style and height against taller opponents, I don't see why it would be any different against Pavlik.

 

I don't know if I'll ever recover.

Well, like I've said all along, Hearns DOES match the description you gave of Pavlik. The only differences are the weaker chin and greater skill. The others resemble Pavlik pretty well also.

How would you describe Pavlik's style, then?

 

Those attributes would be stylistic advantages, if Pavlik didn't just walk forward throwing punches. If he could actually use angles and box then yes they would probably help him against Hagler....but walking forward in a straight line with his chin up nearly got him knocked out by Jermain Taylor - against Hagler he'd most likely be beheaded.

As for Pavliks durability, see round 2 against "couldn't even KO Spinks" Taylor :deal

Also, Taylors stamina played a factor again in the Pavlik fight, he was struggling to keep the man off as he tired. Hagler doesn't tire. EVER.

Hagler KO inside 6 rounds.