Primo Carnera TKO 9 Ray Impelletiere 1935

Where were those versions of the title when Carnera fought? He had the lineal title. A huge difference.
No, I would not favor Carnera over Wilder. What does that have to do with Carnera being a skilled, good SHW?
I rate Wilder highly.

 

Yeah, cool.
I'm not out here saying he can't.

 

I think Impelletiere, who was a novice then shows the better skills early on, but runs out of gas.

 

No but you are using that description of Carnera to somehow indicate he was more skilled than he was ,he fell apart in panic when he got tagged.

Wilder has glaring faults but he has," get out of jail power". Carnera being lineal champion in a crap era doesn't make him automatically better than anyone else.I'd pick Pulev to beat him and I don't rate him. Domimick Breazeale would probably stop Primo!

 

Even undefeated heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano was not completely above the fray. On May 16, 1955, Marciano met British heavyweight Don Cockell for his fifth title defense, in Kezar Stadium in San Francisco. Cockell was a respectable fighter who entered the ring with a 66–11–1 record. He was 10–0 since October 1952 and held a 16-pound weight advantage over the champ. That night, Rocky had a difficult time with Cockell, who finally succumbed when referee Frankie Brown stopped the fight with just under a minute to go in the ninth. Rocky knew it had been a tough fight for him and said after the bout, “That was a very bad fight. I wasn’t sharp, and I knew it.... He’s better than rated. But I had trouble with him. Shortest man I ever fought. Couldn’t use my overhands that I like.” Some in the press were harsh in rating Rocky’s performance. Even after five successful title defenses and an unblemished professional record, the New York Times called Marciano “as clumsy as any champion since Carnera,” and longtime scribe Arthur Daley, typically a Marciano fan, wrote, “Marciano is the best amateur ever to win the world professional championship.” 30 It’s safe to say that many would disagree with Daley’s assessment.

If one reviews the evidence from the day, it is clear that Primo Carnera was an adequate fighter—no Joe Louis, but an adequate fighter—who used his size, strength, conditioning, and toughness to reach the pinnacle of the boxing world. He was trained by men who knew how to box—Paul Journee, Maurice Eudeline, Abe Attell, and had shady connections, knew how to get their man publicity and build his resume. Unfortunately, they also knew how to use Carnera and bilk their fighter out of his prizefighting fortune.

 

Interesting but it doesn't strengthen your case does it?
Carnera being lineal champion for less than one year in a crap era does not indicate that he was anything more than a lucky fighter of average ability who was cynically manouvered into a title shot against a "gone back," champion who himself had been involved in some ,"curious encounters ,"and whose reputation and that of his manager was less than stellar.

 

"Wlad was a better technician and fighter than both"

Except for chin in the case of Vitali. And it is like the narrator says in one of the docs while the 4th round of the first Louis-Schmeling fight is playing. "Boxing is a strange sport. You can have it all in skill and power, but get hit on the chin and it all means nothing."

Taking a better punch can be an overwhelming asset.

 

"He beat Tyson and Holyfield. He dominated the era."

In a way, but actually Holyfield was the guy who was usually the champ until he reached his late thirties. My take is that speed and reflexes are lost with age, but size isn't.

If your best asset is that you are bigger than everyone, it is as true at 38 as 28. That is not true if quickness and coordination are your major strengths.

 

A lucky fighter is a guy who avoided a Mike Tyson fight in the amateurs becaus he had the flu.

Winning the lineal HW title takes far more than luck.

 

You are bringing up a valid issue. I have seen really noticeable variations in speed in different versions of the Louis-Baer fight. Hard to judge speed on those old films, other than which fighter is faster than the other.

 

Little did those living in 1935 know that they were seeing the future of HW boxing.

 

If you are challenging an on the slide champion who has the worst ko% of any heavyweight champion whilst possessing a suspect defence and chin, instead of facing a top notch banger like a prime Dempsey,Liston,Louis etc I'd say that is astonishing luck.

 

Yeah, sometimes a color line (explicit or implicit) helps...

 

What are you talking about?

Carnera was irreproachable on the issue of fighting black contenders.

 

So would I be if their corner had oil of capsicum to rub in their eyes if they got ambitious and a hand gun to threaten them with if they began looking to win. Chevalier and Clark. When those equalizers were removed he didn't fare so well against Leroy Haynes.