Primo Carnera vs. Floyd Patterson

Valuev may have a better chin, although I'm not certain it has been tested by a really big puncher, but Valuev does not seem to have Carnera's stamina, which was unusual for a big man.

 

I've never seen a fight of Valuev's that he did not finish.

 

Patterson is too fast with those combos. I'd say Carnera gets busted up with those quick combos. Patterosn gets him by ten rounds.:good

 

Actually he does. Or well, of course he never went the full 15. But he went 12 with absolutely no problem or sign of being tired. He plods forward all the time throwing quite some punches, mostly jabs. His chin has been tested by big punching Chagaev who couldn't hurt or faze him. I think Valuev is one of the most durable heavyweights of all time, he just doesn't seem to even be bothered when flush combinations bounce of his gigantic cranium. Although he has only faced one good puncher, most of those 230lb+ guys can really crack and while they lack on offensive ability, Valuev has a rather poor defense and has always had to eat a lot of shots, but no matter.

Carnera is quite ahead in defense and power, stamina maybe equal. Valuev is in another dimension when it comes to chin. Overal Carnera is better and certainly more accomplished.

 

I'm judging by his out of gas performance versus Chagaev, and that was the 12th, not the 15th round. Valuev slowed visibly as the fight drew on.

 

Actually, Carnera was in against a lot of big guys also, but this brings up the issue of what is big. Chagaev is 6' 1", shorter than Louis or Baer, and not in the best of shape. When has he, or any of Valuev's other opponents, shown really big power. Carnera went a long ways without his chin betraying him, he was even credited with a top chin, until he got in with the really heavy hitters.
Let's see what happens if Valuev gets in with someone like Wlad Klitschko or Samuel Peter.

To me, Valuev looked dead tired against Chagaev in the last few rounds. I doubt it if he could have gone 15. He would probably have dropped like Cooney did against Holmes.

 

First of all, he paced and trained for 12 rounds, not 15. If he was ready to go 3 more rounds after 12, then that only speaks against him because it would mean he didn't spend all his energy which is pretty dumb. I didn't think he tired that badly actually, from memory he was still coming forward and throwing punches, maybe i have to re-watch.

And punching power is not about height, but about weight. Chagaev has a tank-like build and although he could lose some weight, he optimises power and strength while sacrificing some stamina because he doesn't have to go 15. He fights well at his current weight.

You have a good point about Carnera's chin, but it's hard for me to judge because i have not seen a whole lot of his fights in DVD quality where every punch is clearly visible.

 

Punching power is about punching power. Not about height or weight. My point is that I am totally unconvinced that Chagaev is really bigger than Baer or Louis, who went about 210 and 205 in top, lean condition. Chagaev has a spare tire.
And whatever you think of his size, when has Chagaev shown really superior power?

 

The crucial diference is that Carnera is a fighter extensively proven at world level.

Valuev is not.

I am frankly not convinced that he would even have made it into title contention in Marciano's era.

 

Carnera has gotten better as time goes on.In th 60's and 70's,inept giant were the words used to describe him.

 

Chagaev appears to have a wider frame than them. Bulking up does make you punch harder to a certain degree and at cost of stamina.
He scored 17 knockouts in 23 fights, knocked Sprott out with a few punches although indeed his big fights (Virchis, Ruiz & Valuev) have gone the distance.

The only one in the division that is clearly a level above him in punching is Klitschko. He is one of the hardest punchers around in the division, that should count for something.

 

Okay, perhaps he will end up being considered a better puncher than Baer, but I still think he has a long way to go. And an even longer way to be considered a better puncher than Louis. The only other guy to ko Carnera prior to WWII was Leroy Haynes and he could really punch also.

*Josef Zupan was formally listed as a knockout defeat by Carnera. Recent research, according to boxrec, reveals this fight was actually a Carnera knockout victory.

 

Of course, Chagaev is not in the league of Louis as a puncher. Probably does not have Baer's power either but he is technically more adept than Baer and he doesn't clown around. Bottomline is that he's a good puncher and that Valuev did not get close to being stunned, hurt, staggered or knocked down.

 

by what ive seen of the 2 fighters this is one of the only big names in the heavyweight division i would take primo to defeat

 

Jack in the Box Patterson, was always on his ass....part of his style, and he jumped at folks a lot...so his balance was bad..... And in Patterson we have the reputed second or first fastest heavy of all time. at 36/7 he sure had Ali running backwards very ungracefully for five of the 7 rounds.....
4KO's Thors Hammer (that did Machen in in 1), then being Spinks stupid twice vs Liston... and the last fight with Ali..The Same Ali who one -two punched essencially Lyle and Forman....I call the Liston punch great, but there was no count...and in the old days one was told to get up at 9....look at Jerov vs Moore, had he stayed down to nine, it would have been no big deal but he was wobbling all over the place....
Sure Patterson would go down, may be twice, but I think he'd win a easy decision.

So in a way I think Patterson Glass jaw was pyrodex.
PS. I bet Patterson the second fight too, thinking he'd run a bit.