Primo Carnera vs. Gerry Cooney

Cooney TKO

 

Based on records, films, and what contemporaries had to say, I have to go with Primo Carnera over Gerry Cooney. I think it is very iffy to go with a particular fighter based on the Cooney vs. Holmes fight, and a losing effort at that.

 

Not like Carnera would've done any better. Also Cooney had been inactive for over a year by the time he fought Holmes and it started to show later in the fight.

 

Carnera was actually pretty darn consistent.

He was never going to beat Louis, and he was never going to beat Sharkey at his best, but if you sent him in against somebody like Levinsky or Uzcdun he took care of business.

His win over Sharkey is far superior to anything that Cooney accomplished.

If you put the best wins of both men into a single list, and ranked them, Carnera woudl probably have the top four or five.

That has to be weighted against a single losing effort against Holmes, albeit an impressive one, which could be explained by the factors that I have mentioned.

That doesn't give me enough confidence, to bet against what Carnera is bringing to the table.

 

Well Carnera probably wouldn't have done any better against Holmes, but he would at least have rounded up a few top ten contenders.

His best wins woudl not have been a group of washed up name fighters, no longer ranked in the top ten.

Carnera was a consumate professional next to Cooney.

 

I think Sharkey took a dive,and I am not alone in that opinion.

 

I hold the opposite opinion, and I doubt that this will be the thread where we finally achieve consensus.

Suffice it to say, I take it as a given that Carnera beat Sharkey, just as you take it as a given that Willard beat Johnson.

 

I KO'd you in your prime in the 1st round. We fought at cruiser

 

THAT we can agree on. I cannot see Primo Carnera beating Larry Holmes.

I can, however, see Primo Carnera beating Gerry Cooney.

 

I agree. I have seen no proof that Jack Sharkey took a dive against Primo Carnera. I have watched the knockout several times, in slow motion. That sure looks like a legitimate knockout to me! It would take some really solid proof to convince me otherwise!

 

Well, consistency is fine until one realizes that Carnera's brand of consistency was against a certain type of opposition. One didn't need to be Joe Louis to beat him (and what Louis did to him was stark and telling about Carnera's level - that was the point being made). Any boxer at around 6' 0” and 200lbs or thereabouts, with a bit about them, made Carnera look quite beatable. Maloney, Sharkey (I), Gains, Poreda and Baer were all much, much smaller men than Carnera but were able to beat him handily.

It would be fair to say that Sharkey (II) is Carnera's signature victory but, in real terms, I see this as no better a victory than Cooney's win over Young. Sharkey was at the end of his road and, despite having gotten the nod over Schmeling in their rematch, most felt he had not deserved the decision. It was a fairly flat outing, after which he'd be out of the ring for another year before meeting Carnera for the second time.

It would be fair to speculate that Sharkey had been on the slide before meeting Carnera and it's on record that he made no further impression on the division post-Carnera (II).

I really don't see what Carnera brings to the table which so greatly exceeds the performance level of Cooney. It just isn't there. Moreover, I very much doubt he would have lifted a title in any other era and, even in his own era, his moment in the sun was brief and ended with him being clowned.

 

I was a welter/middle. .Now I'm 190.

 

Excellent post!

 

Some housekeeping is needed there.

Carnera improved significantly after the Maloney, Sharkey I and Gains fights, and by all accounts he was robbed against Poreda.

There I would have to strongly disagree with you.

Sharkey was the undisputed Heavyweight Champion when Carnera beat him, while Young was a named fighter who had dropped out of the Ring Magazine top ten when Cooney beat him.

Thee is simply no comparison between these two win.

They are levels apart.

Was Carnera lucky to get Sharkey when he did?

Yes in my opinion.

However it is still a win over a reigning lineal champion, and a very decisive one at that.

By the way, the Loughran win is also far better than anything Cooney accomplished.

 

Have you seen any proof that Johnson carried Ketchel and faked his KD?
Have you seen any proof that Seldon swallowed it against Tyson?
Have you seen any proof that Liston took a dive against Ali?
In such cases proof is very hard to come by,
Apart from Lamotta's admitted dive against Fox how many conclusive fake fights can you name?
Sharkey's manager thought he dived ,and so did his Wife.
We make our choices.