primo carnera vs nikolai valuev

Valuev

 

both are very simalar IMO Toss up maybe Carnera caus he looks a little faster for his size

 

Carnera fought bums & fixes for most of his career. It wasn't til later when there was no fix in place that he was tested & beaten. Baer for instance made him look silly & knocked him down about 10 times in their fight. Carnera had ability. But mainly threw arm punches without his full power behind them.

Surely Valuev wins.

 

What a horrible thought that these two could ever meet. I'd pick Valuev by incredibly boring, frustrating split decision over 15.

 

I'd have to go with Carnera on this one.

His win over Jack Sharkey easily eclipses anything the Russian Bear On Stilts has done. Not all Carnera's fights were fixed and he has more KO's than Valuev will have total fights. On film he looks far faster and would also be the stronger man by a lot.

Valuev is bigger but that means that there is just more of hime to hit since defense isn't a word he has learned much about yet.

I can't think of any advantage Valuev has...

 

They´re in a different league, Carnera wins by pretty easy and wide UD. The **** about Carnera about "His fights are all fixed..." and "He had no power..." is completely bull****, study boxing history and THAN give your opinion, not only repeat the **** you heard/ read from former biased so called "experts". He had good power, with some good stoppage- wins over solid- chinned fighters(Bearcat Wright, Sharkey, Neusel, etc.), was way faster than Valuev and had better skills, Primo in his prime was only KO´d by great fighters like Louis and Baer, Niko has only mediocre power, so a KO in favour of Valuev isn´t possible IMO...


Carnera UD Valuev

 

We're all entitled to our own opinions. In this case we need to rely on other people's as we weren't even around.

Boxing books from the time (which I've read) and the Internet of today, constantly refer to fixes involving Carnera, and the Sharkey fight is included in this. Read the books for yourself and search the Net as well.

Why would people try to discredit Primo Carnera this way if there wasn't at least some truth to it? Nobody's gaining anything or making any money spreading the story of these fixes, and where there's smoke there's usually fire!

Virtually all reports of Carnera from the time question his power. Most using the line didn't punch with his full body weight, though some writers gave him credit for having a reasonable boxing technique.

Max Baer absolutely humiliated Carnera. The knockdown count was about 10 or 11, and Baer toyed with him!

Have a look at Carnera's last 9 fights for instance. He lost 6 of them badly and the 3 he won were against guys who'd never fought before!

Carnera won a world title but is not remembered or ranked amongst the greats.

Who would win between Carnera and Valuev...... we'll never know my friend!

 

Sharkey swear to his Death that the fight wasnt fixed

and the myth that all his fights were fixed is a myth yes some were fixed but when he got near the top the mob abanndond him and he was left to fight for his owne is what iv read about him

 

This much I agree with.

Someone said earlier on this thread that all the talk of fixes involving Carnera was bull****.........History doesn't support that view at all.

 

While I tend to go along with your views for the most part, don't be too hasty in writing off some of Carnera's fights as fixes.

This has been dealt with in considerable detail on this forum in the past, and some reputable posters have given enough ammo to make me pause for thought in this regard.

Just saying...

 

"Nobody's gaining anything or making any money spreading the story of these fixes"

Are you kidding. Budd Shulberg made his name with the novel THE HARDER THEY FALL. He not only made money from the novel, but made even more money, and gained fame, from the movie version starring no less than Humphrey Bogart. There should be a bit of a red flag put up that the CARNERA story is told as the story of Toro Morino. Why change names if you have the facts? as you allege. The novel is sensationalistic fiction. Off the films of Carnera in action, it is certainly possible to judge that he had the career he had more or less on the level. He was huge and he could box and he had stamina. The 11 knockdowns by Baer overlooks that Carnera survived early knockdowns to rally and make a fight of it between the 4th and the 9th and why is Carnera's performance against Baer any worse than Patterson's twice against Liston? Do you think Patterson's earlier fights had to have been fixes off his miserable performances against Liston?

Carnera suffered severe neurological damage in his knockout defeat to the heavy-fisted Leroy Haynes and spent several months in the hospital. I don't see much value in bringing up any of his fights after Haynes.

 

I don't think that anyone is really claiming that EVERY one of Primo Carnera's fights were fixed. However, there have been ample allegations over the last 60-70 years to point to the notion that some of his fights were. The beatings that he later took from Baer and Haynes were probably not fixes, but then It may not have been in the mob's best interest to keep him on top anymore either. Most of the public at the time knew his career was a farce, or at least to some extent. I have heard stories of ringsiders laughing at ringside for the Sharkey fight ( source needed ). So how many of his fights were fixed? who knows. Were his biggest fights fixed, or just some of the easier ones? Again, who knows. My only point, is that there have been multiple implications regarding the validity of his career, and as much as none of them have ever been proven, no one has ever come forth to prove they WEREN'T true either..

 

The myth about Carnera and his fixed fights is as much exagerated as the myth about non-Germans can´t win on German soil. There were fixes in some of Carnera´s fights but still there is evidence that he´s faster, better technically and defensivly, busier and has as much power as Valuev. I´d say Carnera by clear UD.

 

What do the Baer and Haynes fights, or the Louis fight, have to do whether Carnera's earlier fights were fixes. Was the Sharkey fight fixed? Does the film support you? I would say no. Was the Schaaf fight fixed? The Uzcudun fight? The Loughran fight? If all or most fights were being fixed, why did Carnera lose to Mahoney, Sharkey, Gains, and Poreda? The Poreda fight was even considered a very controversial decision in which Carnera was shafted.

Sports Illustrated in 1960 quoted Senate investigators as alleging that at least six of Sonny Liston's fights were fixed. Do you accept that, and, if not, why the double standard?

As for proving something isn't true--Sharkey went to his grave denying his loss to Carnera was a fix. I would think the burden of proof is on those who say it was. Offer proof, not gossip, or the work of a fiction writer writing fiction.