Primo Carnera was as legitimate a champion as any there has ever been.

I was referring to Valuev's title fights,and Loewe's post.I thought Old Fogey gave a fairly even handed summary of things ,you and I will never be reconciled on this subject but as allways you mount a detailed but gentlemanly argument,shall we agree to differ?

 

Carnera probably would have got a title shot ,talent was thin on the ground,and he was certainly better than Von Porat,Santa ,Impellitiere,Scott etc,I dont think he would beat Godfrey in a straight fight,,and he never met Tuffy Griffiths,Johnny Risko or Tom Heeney on the way up.He was probably a little better than them, but not by much ,imo.Box rec 's mini biography on him makes interesting reading.

 

Well, Primo Carnera was controlled by mobsters and I'm sure some of his early fights were fixed.... Carnera was probably on the level, but his team was crooked as all hell... I think he did KO Jack Sharkey in honest fashion, so that would certainy place a legitimate claim on his title winning effort... Other than Carnera's great size, he was not a special fighter with any real superb boxing skills.... Primo Carnera was more so a 1930's freak show.... KO losses to "Baer & Louis" really hurt his legacy and reputation as a solid champion / fighter.... Peace...

MR.BILL:bbb

 

Well, it was obvious that if the fight was close that Valuev would win it, so kind of fixed.

 

Three points;
1)Leon See, in his book, admits to the fixing of many of Primo's early fights,
2)Schmeling had some pretty bad nights too,
and
3)the ratings that ye are using seem to be year-end and therefore sometimes miss-leading

 

Some? He had a bad year in '34. He lost to Baer in a competative fight which was about even up to the stoppage in what most people see as Baer´s best performance. He lost to Hamas on a bad night, which he revenged shortly after and he drew with Uzcudun in Uzcudun´s hometown and most likely should have won, and he beat Uzcudun before and after.
Schmeling´s bad nights were either in his lhw years where he had trouble making weight and after WW2 when he was just fighting to make some bucks.

 

Schmeling and Carnera are poles apart in talent.

 

Ture but that doesn´t make Carnera a less legit champ. sure he had some fixes but not in the important fights. Sure, he was lucky to be the right man at the right place at the right time. The first should be held against him to an extent the second not. He made as much out of his career as he could what is quite an achievement in itsself. And similar to toady´s John Ruiz he get´s too much ****. Give this man some respect.

 

Read my old posts on this subject before giving me orders on respect.In fact read a bit more about the subject in general ,you don't appear that clued up on Primo.

 

Well, I followed this thread and I had the impression you tried everything to talk him down.

 

By this reasoning, all of Ali's fights were kind of fixed.

I agree with your general stance on Carnera, though. I think he was a legit champ, who may have had some rather insignificant fights fixed, and may have had help from the mob to get his title shot. Just like every other fighter of his time. But nothing suggests that his signature wins over Uzcudun (2x?), Sharkey, Loughran, Schaaf, etc, were fixed. I've seen the Godfrey fight and it's a legit whack to the ball that causes disqualification, it's not like he hit Carnera in the face and they DQ'd him because it was fixed. Notice they didn't have cup protectors back then and wore smaller gloves. He was throwing them before and had every right to be DQ'd.