Primo Carnera was as legitimate a champion as any there has ever been.

To the guys that are making the argument that Primo was legit, please answer the following question:

According to the record books, Primo Carnera stopped 66 men. Given that your argument is that he was not built up on fixes, he must have been a pretty serious puncher, at least to some degree. 66 KO's are far more than Sullivan, Jeffries, Willard, Dempsey, Schmeling, Baer, Louis, Marciano, Liston and I believe Foreman. Yes I know he fought more but ko's are ko's ... Where do you guys rate him in your heavyweight rankings and as a puncher all time ?

As far as Ali goes, I felt he won the Doug Jones fight. Frazier 2 as well but it was definately a ref's fight . Perez let him hold like crazy and it had a huge impact on the result. Most of his second title reign was a joke. He barely trained for Wepner. The fight against Lyle was terrible, Ali doing absolutely zero till the stoppage. He barely trained for Bugner 2. Thrilla was his last great fight. He should have lost Young and Norton 3 was the worst decision in a major title bout I can remember ...

 

Yes and Ali got a lot of quick stoppages or when he told the ref to stop it he listened....He lost I believe the 3rd to Norton, Young beat him but he took the minds of everyone near even the opponent and when he was hurt they were not sure

 

Watching some clips on Carnera and I must say that Vitali Klitscko and him moves a little the same. Same stifness.
Just so you know, I´m not a Klitscko fan.
I´ve always heard that Carnera was "the mob´s champion". True or not, he wasn´t a great boxer.
As always, this is just my opinion.
All the best
The predator

 

I wouldn't rate Carnera that high as a puncher. Most of his victims were has-beens or lifelong canvaskissers with the exceptions of Sharkey and Schaaf. The fact that his career follows such a strong pattern, blowing away the Eurotankers and Amerofloppers while pretty consistantly going to a decision against contenders is a pretty strong argument actually for his fights being on the level. Why weren't the contenders fixed to take a dive? Carnera ko'd Hansen, Campolo, Schaaf, Sharkey, Impelletierre and Neusel, plus the Dieners, Gormans, and Cooks of the world. He did not KO Maloney, McCorkindale, Uzcudun, Levinsky, Gains, Poreda, Lasky, or Loughran, as well as Stribling, Godfrey, Baer, or Louis. This is what I would expect from a marginal puncher padding his record with second-raters.

There certainly are other punchers who followed this pattern:

1. Tommy Gomez--66 KO's in 88 fights, but his power waned quickly when in against top men. Best KO's were second tier contenders Tony Musto, Phil Muscato, Gunnar Barlund, Johnny Flynn, and Freddie Schott.

2. George Chuvalo--64 KO's in 93 fights, but rarely showed KO power against top men. Best KO's Yvon Durelle, Willi Besmanoff, Doug Jones, Manuel Ramos, and Jerry Quarry. The Quarry KO was flukish. I certainly wouldn't consider Chuvalo a top level puncher despite the KO record which was run up for the most part against ham and eggers.

3. Elmer Ray--62 KO's in 96 fights, but as far as I can tell, only Lee Savold and Larry Lane among his KO victims ever made the yearly Ring Magazine rankings. Lane was way past it and Savold in a career slump when Ray got them. Ray probably never knocked out a fighter rated when he fought him and only the Savold KO looks all that impressive in retrospect.

4. Cleveland Williams--58 KO's in 92 fights, but probably never KO'd a fighter who was rated when he fought him. Best KO's are John Holman, Alex Miteff, Ernie Terrell, Alonzo Johnson, and Roger Rischer. Terrell was not yet rated, but this stoppage is impressive. The rest? The usual second-tier guys.

5. Charley Retzlaff--52 KO's in 75 fights--another who failed against the very best men and all but forgotten today, but KO'd Tom Heeney, Art Lasky, Al Ettore, and Stanley Poreda.

 

Carnera kod Hansen? Hansen "visited" the floor 4 times in the first and only round with Carnera.In his previous fight he and his opponent had their purses with held when Hansen fell without being hit,it was declared a no contest.Hansen had lost his last five fights ,three by ko.His fight prior to that was a dq win and before that? Two ko losses to Roy Ace Clark and Maurice Grisselle familiar names? They should be ,they are both on Carnera's record.
Neusel? He retired with a cut eye ,and that was that.Schaaf ? He should have been in a hospital waiting for the GRIM REAPER.You couldn't make it up!

 

Okay. Hansen was a setup. This backs up the point Janitor and I are making. Carnera blew away the setups, but generally went the distance with the better fighters.

Carnera's three big KO's were over Sharkey, Schaaf, and Neusel. Neusel was stopped on a cut. Schaaf after a 13 round beating. Sharkey might not have had a glass jaw, but he was in and out. Besides Dempsey and Louis, he had been stopped by Romero-Rojas and was lucky to get out without being stopped by Maloney who had him down 6 times in the last two rounds before losing on a foul.

I would wonder if as many fights were fixed as myth has it, why didn't more contenders take dives? Why pay Godfrey to foul Carnera? Why not pay him to take the count? A foul victory didn't do that much for Carnera's reputation.

 

Schaaf was very sick ,so we can throw that one out,he did not get a beating ,he plodded forward straight into Carnera's jab ,Ernie a fine boxer looked so crude the ringsiders thouight he was looking to go in the tank,the poor guy was ill.Maloney was a good puncher who had a glass chin himself .A foul victory did mn't do much for Carnera's reputation? A ko loss would not have done much for Godfrey's would it? Sharkey was finished when he fought Louis he took the fight for his pension fund.Most of Carnera's wins were by ko ,how come he is not rated anywhere as a puncher?

 

1. Schaaf was ill. No doubt about that and his performance was subpar. He died because Carnera beat on him for 13 rounds. Schaaf died of a cerebral hemorrhage. The bottom line here is that it is unclear if Schaaf would have won this fight if he were healthy. He wasn't and he didn't.

2. Sharkey was vulnerable to less than top punchers. Romero-Rojas KO'd him. Romero-Rojas scored only 10 KO's in 82 fights. Maloney was hardly a big puncher. He scored 20 KO's in 69 fights and none were over top men. He had Sharkey down 6 times in the 8th and 9th but lost the fight on a foul, saving Sharkey from a potential stoppage. If Romero-Rojas could stop Sharkey, and Maloney come close, it is not surprising to me that Carnera, for all the putdowns almost certainly a more dangerous puncher than those two, could knock him out if he landed a perfect punch.

3. As I pointed out in an earlier post, and Janitor has also mentioned, just having a fantastic KO record on paper does not prove one a really top level puncher. Such records are often the result of being fed a steady diet of ham and eggers. Was Chuvalo a really big puncher? Was Elmer Ray? Even granting all the putdowns, is there any evidence either punched harder than Carnera. I would say no.

4. Why make a fight at all if the best you can get out of it is a foul? It is not going to do your guy any good and if that is the only way Godfrey will agree to tank, an odd quirk I might add, why deal with Godfrey? Certainly Carnera did not have to fight him.

 

Godfrey: "Sure I'll throw the fight."

The Mob: "Good, how exactly will it go down?"

Godfrey: "I'll hit your guy in the nuts and get disqualified."

The Mob: "Sounds good to us, nice to do business with you Mr. Godfrey."

Godfrey: "Anytime!"

:huh




Sharkey: "Sure I'll throw the fight."

The Mob: "Good, how exactly will it go down?"

Sharkey: "I'll hit Schmeling in the nuts and get disqualified."

The Mob: "Sounds good to us, nice to do business with you Mr. Sharkey."

Sharkey: "Anytime!"

:huh:huh

 

He beat a few contenders and Sharkey for the title legitimately...he was a real champion

 

Well thats an opinion.

 

Yes it is,more like some facts