Primo Carnera's ability

This is excellent.

 

as you know I am never too big to admit I was wrong, if he did not endorse that line and did those other positive things then I forgive him. I still don’t believe the film is accurate and presumably neither did Bud if he wanted that line removed.

I also don’t understand why you would endorse that film as some honest portrayal of Carnera since the line was left in and overall the story is far too outlandish.

the clip you decided to show was the bit where Bogey tells the sham fighter “you can’t fight” and that “any saloon fighter will wipe the floor with you” which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

You said either Carnera himself was “barely serviceable” or his giant opponent was “barely serviceable” I forget which way round it was. If it was his opponent rather than Carnera himself, which to me seems to be equally ridiculous, then for the sake of being reasonable I apologise if I mistakenly got it the wrong way around. It was in no way deliberate or dishonest and I believe it is petty and grasping at straws to believe it could ever have been. Either way this barely serviceable tag is an out and out slur on the competence of a world level fighter. I think it rather insulting that any fighter who made the grade gets called “barely serviceable”.

 

To be fair, it was pretty good research.

 

I didn't intentionally show any clip, until I read this I didn't know there was one on my post!
The book is accurate imo, he wasn't responsible for the screenplay.
The film took some licence with the facts but not outlandishly so .
My point, which I believe I conclusively proved is you were totally wrong about Shulberg in all aspects .
He was a crusader for boxing not against it. If I have a problem with him it is over his actions during the HUAC era when he "named names".he himself had been a card carrying Communist in his youth,[as many young people seem to have been,].Ive no problem with Communists , but I do have one with people who are not "staunch" and Shulberg, like that great Director Eli Kazan caved in when questioned by that pack of hyenas led by McCarthy.
You've nothing to forgive Shulberg for, his life ,apart from the episode I touched on, is pretty exemplary he did 3 years in the Navy during the War,was an honours graduate from Dartmouth and a Phil Beta Kappa .He was personal friends with Fitzgerald,Steinbeck etc and the great boxing writers I mentioned.
You should have his life and achieve a tenth of what he did!

 

As I am an admirer of his books I knew nearly all of it without doing any research,and many of the boxing writers I do like ,such as Kimball and Heinz were great devotees of his, so it was a form of remote osmosis really.

 

I rightfully denied the same claim from you, in the post linked below, and yet you went on to subsequently repeat it...

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/primo-carneras-ability.613588/page-16#post-19376561

It is neither "petty" nor "grasping at straws" to point out, for the second time, your fundamental misrepresentation of how I explained my view on Carnera's abilities. In you doing so, it shows you're not really looking at the central argument and key points being made and are more concerned with twisting the matter to please you.


If your righteous indignation, on the truly petty matter of figurative terminology, makes you feel better... ...fill your boots.

 

One of the central arguments was that Campolo defeated Arturo Godoy over 12 rounds after Primo knocked Campolo out. Even disputing the decision would not make Campolo a bad fighter. 12 rounds is 12 rounds and Arturo was a good fighter. You never looked at that point did you?

 

Campolo beat a young20 years old Godoy, who returned the compliment as he matured.I don't see this as a very solid plank to base your platform on.
Who else did he beat?

 

Regardless of the fact that this is one of your 'splinter-points' and not a 'central argument', I provided responses to your reference to Campolo beating Godoy, here…

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/primo-carneras-ability.613588/page-13#post-19375019


And, again, here…

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/primo-carneras-ability.613588/page-16#post-19376105


Then explained to you that I’d already provided responses on Campolo/Godoy previously, here…

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/primo-carneras-ability.613588/page-16#post-19376561


…Yet, here we are, again. Just another demonstration of your circular reasoning model.

 

Godoy never beat Campolo. Primo beat Campolo either side of campolos win over Godoy. The second time they fought was after Primo lost to Baer and carnera proved to still have enough to beat the man who beat Godoy.

 

I believe @mcvey might have been referring to Godoy's later win over Valentin Compolo (who I believe was Victorio's brother).

This does not take away from the primary point that Godoy was not the finished article, when Victorio met him, and that the decision seems to have been disputed, at the time. In any event, it is the flimsiest of attempts to prop up Carnera's ability - via Campolo and his win over a young Godoy.

 

OMG another Carnera thread. Why am I not surprised. Like we dont already know absolutely everything about this man considering hes been covered more than just about everyone in the last 2 yrs. Great threads come and go with 4 or 5 answers but list a Carnera thread and your guaranteed 10 pages.

 

"How do you then explain his awesome ko percentage?"

I hesitate to get into this because of the bad feeling, but Max Schmeling gave an explanation in his autobiography:

on Carnera--"They said he couldn't really punch, that he just sort of clubbed his opponents. In fact, his reach was much greater than that of any opponent, and the leverage that that gave him enabled his punches to penetrate almost any defense."

I think Max puts his finger on it here. Carnera was not p4p that much of a puncher, but his sheer size made it hard to defense him, especially guys who mostly weren't all that good defensively anyway. And the few guys somewhat close to his size, but still quite a bit smaller like Campolo, were guys who were also winning on size and had little else going for them.

 

Yes I can well imagine that being a case of Mcvey blundering again. He’s getting on you know..