Primo Carnera's ability

But this comment exposes a hypocrisy.
You're saying that "looking good" doesn't indicate substance. Agreed.

And you know what does? Winning. On the highest of levels.
What did Carnera do? He won the belt.

 

If you want Primo to look bad, that is how you'll see him.
Want to view Fury as an oaf? No shortage of supply there either.

I see him as I see most top level SHWs.
They don't always look pretty, but they make up for it in height, reach, strength, durability, etc.

Carnera had the right balance of size and skill to become a champion.

Pull counter KD:
https://streamable.com/h4v3d

Footwork and reach:
https://streamable.com/6itl7

You wanna say these guys look light years ahead, to me, you're caught up in a hype
https://streamable.com/ccvah

 

No hypocrisy at all. Maybe you misread something? I never denigrated “looking good” as unimportant. I merely pointed out that even guys who are poor boxers with limited technical skills can look good on occasion. Holds true for a lot of sports. It’s why cherry-picked, seconds-long “highlight” clips often aren’t very illuminating. Janitor's suggestion--that if a boxer proves he can do something once, he has presumably mastered the technique and can do it at will--is dead wrong.

 

Let me guess - chok is the good debater

 

And the jury is still out about the legitimacy of that result!

 

I think it's bad acting.

 

All I know is, Riddick Bowe looked a lot less like a great fighter against Herbie Hide.

There is a huge double standard going on. The very same ones who embrace the modern Superheavyweight are the firmest critics of The prototype.

How can they knock Carnera and endorse the rest of the Superheavyweights?

Carneras key fights all stand up. He could box, he was brave, he defended his title. There has been a lot worse Superheavyweights.

If you love size advantage (And muscles) what’s not to like?

 

Let me guess -john Thomas is bandwagging again?

 

That could well be all you know. (Although, this^ still, is a questionable statement)

Nonetheless, against Hide (who weighed in at 214lbs and stood at 6' 2"), Bowe wasn't pushed to the point of relying on the scorecards for a split decision victory, was he?

Surely, for Carnera to have been the "prototype" Super Heavyweight, he'd have needed to have more than just the physical characteristics of one?

What pedigree did Carnera have to be considered the basis, upon which future Super Heavyweights would progress?

Carnera's "key fights" barely stand up. He was pushed by opponents, who were giving up over 60lbs in weight and over 6 inches in height. He was, however, beaten soundly by anyone with a bit of extra size and some skills (Gains, Poreda, Baer, Louis, Haynes); and even these guys are smaller than the opponents modern Super Heavyweights are competing with, today.

I'm not all that in favor of the 'size counts' argument, but there are obviously scales of disparity, in which size can become almost insurmountable; particularly, if there is a shortage in the smaller guy's skill level.

I'm not sure what you mean by this and I'm not sure I want to know.

 

The underlined is an absolutely fatuous comment.
Posters do not question Carnera's skill- set because he was a Super heavy, they do so because they can see his was an average boxer who pushed his jab, was wide open to right hands , lacked power an all round defence and went to pieces when attacked.In other words his only similarity to Riddick Bowe and other SHv'ys like Lewis & the Klits is that he made his living as a boxer! Good debater?lol

I don't think his key fights all stand up either. Gains schooled him, Sharkey did first time around and I still think he went for a swim in the rematch.Baer played with him like he was a giant Aunt Sally doll. Loughran held his own despite being outweighed by80lbs[where was the big uppercut then?]Neusel quit.Uzcudun hadn't been ranked for 3 years! His two fights with Stribling were farcical fixes.Leroy Haynes a fringe contender ruined him twice.

Not buying into the Carnera hype train does not mean you have to lump all Superheavies together.

There have been giant heavies who achieved some degree of notoriety principally because of their size.
Impelletiere *
Santa
Potgieter
Carnera
Campolo
*Novice Impelletiere was outboxing Carnera until he ran out of gas.
Primo was marginally better than the rest I named.
Your arguments are ludicrously absurd!

 

Great point about the other 'Super Heavyweights' of the times. It's easy to forget that Carnera was not the only giant around in those days, due to all the attention and 'assistance' Primo was receiving.

To confidently define Carnera as "the prototype" Super Heavyweight, he'd need to have been somewhat more complete, as a boxer; not just a bit better than a rough bunch of big guys.

 

The guy was bigger and stronger guy than was the template in those days, was able to do 15 rounds at an excellent pace and made the grade at the highest level against good opponents like Sharky, Loughran, Schaff, Uzcudun all of whom would have shown him up if he was not the real McCoy.

But he paid his dues and came back from a lot of those with better wins over better opponents. He destroyed Jose Santa, Campolo and Ray impletierre all Superheavyweights his own size. There was no shame in losing to Louis. You going to hold that against him?

well there is a lot more to favour bigger guys now. It was much harder for a bigger guy to make the grade when Primo did it. He is the forerunner for what we have now. Primo was versatile. He beat smaller skilled guys and he beat up big guys.

 

Take that up with Max Schmeling, Larry Gains and Max Baer all of whom regarded the guy as a legit champion and respected Primos attributes as a fighter.

Are they ludicrously absurd too?

 

Herbie Hide would massacre Carnera!

 

Show me ONE quote from any of the three where they state he was a legitimate champion.
Gains said he didn't punch his weight.My Father asked Gains about Carnera he just shook his head and wouldn't be drawn,but I suppose that's just, "powder room talk huh?"

Baer called him," The Big Gorgonzola".
Sharkey said," there is a lot of speculation about his fights,and I won't say what I should say"
Louis said ,"he had nothing, they were looking at his size not his talent."

JUNE 25, 1935, PRIMO CARNERA W ko 6 NEW YORK
“I was still unbeaten after 12 months, and now had been matched with a former world champion. It was also my first appearance in New York, and you can imagine how I felt as I made my way to the ring with 90,000 enthusiastic fans standing up and cheering, at that great ball park, the Yankee Stadium.
“Carnera had, of course, lost his World title about the same time as I turned pro, but prior to meeting me he had won all three successive fights, and all inside the distance.
“He was indeed a huge man. But I had been training with big fellows, and had some idea if what to expect and what to do.
“When we went into our first clinch I picked him up and set him down in a corner. He sure looked surprised and it gave me a lot of confidence.
“There was no real snap in his punches, and once I had solved the problem of his size it was easy. In the sixth he mumbled something to the referee, and he stopped it.
“This was my first real important win.”

Tunney said ,"he falls apart when he is hit".
No, they aren't ludicrously absurd ,it's just you.
" They coulda put ten rubber bands on Carnera they still wouldnt have made him a fighter."Angelo Dundee.