Problems I had with Frazier vs Foreman I

Now come on, that’s hardly fair. Mr mcvey is a notorious hair splitter. He’s world class! If its good for the goose then it certainly good for the gander.

 

One was in the Army and couldn’t. You really think that’s the same?

 

I'm not looking into reasons, I'm correcting your assertion that Dempsey was unique in not defending for 3 years. I've given you 2 examples that prove you are wrong.
Add Sullivan to the other 2, 3 years 2 months between Kilrain and Corbett
Corbett, 2 yrs 5 months between Mitchell and Sharkey.
p.s. Braddock went 2 years without defending too.

 

So Dempsey is the only guy who VOLUNTARILY, with NO REASON other than he wanted to do other things, sat on the heavyweight title for 3 years.

I consider being in the Army (and thus unable to train properly or defend) and the sport being illegal (Sullivan) to be valid reasons.

Why do you throw examples of gaps of less than 3 years? What does that have to do with anything.

What Dempsey did was disgraceful.

 

I gave you Jess Willard and Joe Louis, you ignored Willard . I'm content that you were wrong and I proved it.
What you consider is irrelevant to the cold facts.

 

I think Ref Mercante did a very good job, letting George fight his fight. Big George was a much more effective boxer than people give him credit for. remember who he had in his corner; Archie Moore, Sandy and Dick Sadler; the man knew a LOT of technique. Joe never could get a clean shot and I love the way George simply pushed Joe off, and then followed up with that jab to the fact before DROPPING THAT HAMMER!

 

I remember Moore saying something like when “Frazier’s head bobs down it’s going to come back up. Hit him when it comes up.” George did time that sequence. Joe could be a clockwork toy in that respect. But what I most believe helped George was the lack of range Frazier now had after the Ali fight. Against Ali Joe had been able to reach a fighter at range who outreached him. The breathtaking footing, anticipation and timing to do this never came back after TFOTC.

 

That's some feat given Frazier throws left hooks almost exclusively!!

 

yea thats always been a dumb way to think its mutiple sluggers who have been beat by swammers depends on the skill level of said fighter

 

Mercante really blew it in this fight. I'm surprised in-between rds Yank didn't read him the riot act. I also feel Frazier coming in a bit fat wasn't getting low enough. He was standing too tall IMO and really wasn't moving his head like he normally did. TFOTC just took a bit too much out of Joe for me.

 

Willard was inactive.
Johnson once he was in exile became some what inactive.
Burns was a fighting champion.
Hart was not champ for long.
Jeffries was pretty active.
Fitzsimmons was inactive.
So was Corbett.

 

Agree with a lot of what you’ve written really I do. But I don’t think the ref makes a difference he was going to do it till he got DQd if he had to- Even Pep used to do some pushing much as it was hidden.

 

I think Arthur Mercante is overrated. First, he is like a strutting little peacock in there. Always on the move, always keen to be part of the action, always poised to stick his nose in. Whenever he is the third man in the ring you are aware of him. Z Clayton, by way of contrast, is - despite his bulk - unobtrusive. Second, he lacks authority at critical moments. He badly flunked the Frazier v Foreman fight. Watch him flapping his arms like a flustered washerwoman. He ought to have stopped the savagery before the - utterly pointless - final knockdown. I read in one of the Mercante obits that after retirement he loved to talk about the famous fights he was involved in, including the fight under discussion here. An undeveloped sense of shame then...

 

It’s been a while since I’ve watched Foreman’s early pre title fights but I’m pretty sure the shove was already integrated into his game though he probably used it most blatantly and to greatest effect against Frazier.

Very early, Joe did catch George clean with at least one solid left hook in rd 1. It got Foreman’s attention and he immediately pushed Frazier away and never let up doing same as and when it suited him thereafter.

Actually, he definitely used it against Chuvalo in 1970 and was warned for same by none other than Arthur Mercante.

Even if Joe was fated to be ultimately KO’d by Foreman any which way, I do think the shove made George’s life that much easier and he didn’t employ it for no reason, obviously understanding the considerable advantage it gave him.