Yes, Foreman shouldn't have been allowed to push repeatedly, but Frazier would never beat George. In the second fight Joe tried a different strategy. It delayed the inevitable for a short while, but the inevitable, of course, happened. Fighters similar to George would have wrecked Joe as well. Bonavena, limited as he was, almost did it.
You don't know boxing history. Numorous fighters staggered Frazier. Bonavena knocked him down twice and came within a hairs breath from stopping Joe. Bonevena was no Foreman in terms of punching power. Post a LINK to a quote from a known boxing trainer who stated Frazier would have beaten prime Foreman.
Harry Gibbs the great English referee had breakfast with Mercante next day, Arthur asked him if he thought he called it off late.Gibbs said," since you ask me ,yes".
"It wasn't to long ago before such blows would've been brushed off by the rugged Frazier. But he was ready to be plucked this momentous evening and Foreman did a clean and neat job of it"
So Ali's an amateur? The greatest himself said. "That wasn't the same Joe Frazier that fought me." "He was 204 pounds--fast. You know how fast I am. I'm twice as fast as Foreman. He (Frazier) was right on top of me, coming over my punches. If he was in that shape with George Foreman, he would've annihilated him." He was also talking about how washed up Frazier was, and how Foreman was unproven and only beat a washed up Frazier. He also said he doesn't think Joe's gonna be "in that (1971) shape ever again."
You are taking the quotes of two of Fraziers and Foreman's adversaries, Ali and Norton, and one newspaper quote by an unknown source, as the sole evidence that Frazier was badly deteriorated before the Foreman fight. I would prefer objective observers - boxing experts at that time. Ali and Norton had an agenda - to talk down Foreman before fighting him. Also, the visual evidence is that Frazier was slightly past his best when fought Foreman, but he was not badly deteriorated. He was simply anniliated by a guy with the right style and punching power to take him out.
I think too much is made out of Foreman's pushing. This is pro boxing after all, not amateur boxing. More physicality is often allowed by the ref than the rules strictly do. George was always physical - in both his careers. And apart from against Young I never saw him cautioned for it. Ali and Wlad and others have been given a lot of leniency in pushing on their opponents' necks. Liston pushed Patterson off in order to get room for his shots. McCallum pushed Watson off of him repeatedly, Duran was jostling with Leonard in Montreal... The examples are numerous. I don't know why Foreman-Frazier is such a big deal.
There is no doubt that Frazier was in way better shape for Ali in '71, then for Foreman. Joe even admitted he didn't feel right in Jamaica, before the fight. Joe isn't the kind of guy to make excuses.
Ken Norton dicussed that Frazier seemed to be a shell of himself, Yancey Durham wanted him to retire prior to Jamaica.
