Problems I had with Frazier vs Foreman I

Have we really had 7 pages and three years of posts saying Foreman was pushing illegally? He was. So what? If he had been warned and was on a final warning he'd have stopped pushing and just punched Joe. Either way he beats 1973 Frazier with ease.

No wonder Russell gets so upset when some of his cracking threads about obscure 30s bantamweights don't get a response and yet 'Foreman was naughty to push Frazier' gets over 100 posts and is still going three years later.

Pulling in all the sheeple.

Like me, for instance. D'oh!

 

The pushing helped George. Without it he probably has to go a little longer and may take a few more shots from Joe.

 

But I thought you said swarmers invariably beat boxers?

 

Never said that no. I believe firmly that you are utterly mistaken. I have always forever been dead against ridiculous generalisations like that. As you know, In boxing circles there are tactics to use from each style to get ahead against each other style. Effectively stopping your opponent doing what he wants or needs to do.

 

Must have been Janitor then.

 

Confusing me with Janitor is the finest compliment you have ever paid me! Thanks.

 

This is another joke thread. It's like blaming a fighter for throwing punches to cut his foe, then when the foe gets cut going, well, if he wouldn't have been allowed to cut him things are different. Frazier wasn't going to win that fight with or without the pushing. This is just silly

 

You are right pushing is not allowed but wasn't enforced but the bottom line is Frazier's styled required him to overpower his opponents and it was never going to happen with George he would have been hit a little more but at the same time instead of pushing Foreman would have punched more instead

 

Not exactly considering throwing punches is the object of the game and pushing is a foul. Though I agree with your overall point that Foreman was gonna win

 

Foreman was going to win because that night the world found out Frazier just was not the same guy he had been against Ali. He was not recognisable. The odds on that fight were set on the chance Frazier was still the same guy but he was not. Which is why all the experts fancied Frazier. They saw what Foreman did to Chuvalo and still picked Frazier. It did not compare to Frazier against Ali. But Joe was not that fighter anymore. Frazier was an overweight part time singer by then.

 

Foreman did not beat a who's who of comtemders. He was 40-0 but the public didn't truly know he had "wrecking balls" in his gloves as Joe Frazier put it.

 

Foreman beats any version of Frazier imo.

 

Frazier should have employed Young's genius tactics against Ali and stuck his head outside of the ropes. That way if George continued to push him, inevitably it would have been a no contest as Frazier probably breaks his arm falling out the ring

 

Perhaps Big George did push Frazier around a bit ,maybe that was his gameplay from long before the fight ..and maybe a different ref calls him out over it and warns him .But I don't think its makes a difference either way .Joe's style and Chin up against Foreman would more than likely always result in Frazier losing.
Just my opinion Swag .

 

This is true, there was not enough evidence at that time that what Foreman was doing to the hapless victims he fought in 1972 would translate to world level guys. it was a gamble because there really was not the proof George could do it.

Frazier was still riding high on a reputation based on something he could no longer produce.

Joe took a long time out of the ring after the Ali fight. Rumours had it Frazier would never fight again after the beating he took winning the fight. Eventually an exhibition was arranged to see if it was worth the champion even continuing with his career!

Frazier said he hoped the exhibition would settle the question of his health. Only after a public workout with an ancient Cleveland Williams (with head guards) in Texas was it decided the champ still had enough durability left to continue defending his title, but even then, the next two challengers were completely hand picked.

Terry Daniels and Ron Stander. Close examination showed Frazier against those two was not the same force at all. But presumably it was decided Foreman was of no extra risk either since his record looked far too padded and manufactured to be of real concern.

It’s funny how after Foreman sensationally upset the odds the focus on the surprise of having a new exciting champion totally eclipsed all evidence of Frazier’s dramatic decline.