Problems with Lineal Champion concept

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Nowman, Nov 1, 2023.


  1. Nowman

    Nowman New Member Full Member

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    Oct 27, 2023
    If you take the idea of lineal champion it sounds like a great alternative to the corrupt sanctioning bodies. But there are problems with it I think.

    Take the 90s.

    George Foreman won the lineal championship as well as the WBA and IBF belts in November 1994. He would defend the championship against dubious competition until he finally lost a majority decision to Shannon Briggs in November 1997. He was stripped of the WBA and IBF titles in the meantime. And only had the lineal championship.

    In the meantime Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Lennon Lewis were the alphabet champions. They were also far above Foreman in the rankings. Foreman completely fell out of The Ring top 10 rankings by 1997.

    So the lineal championship was clearly not indicative of the best fighter at Heavyweight.

    Today Tyson Fury is lineal champion but many people believe Oleksandr Usyk has been a better fighter for over a year.
     
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  2. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No one has ever said the champion should always necessarily be the best of the division. They just hold the genuine championship, until someone proves himself better. Even historically, the champ hasn't always been the man in the division. In the late 20's-early 30's, every single Welterweight champion lost the lineal title in their very first title defense, for 12 consecutive times or more, it was outrageous. Not everyone could be a long reigning champ like Louis, some guys were just bound to be better overall.

    But it's always better to be the man who beat the man, rather than just some corrupt organization's title holder, even if you're not necessarily the best around.
     
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  3. Dangerwood84

    Dangerwood84 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good post and you have retirements etc, the line get's broken and a imaginary new line begins. It's irrelevent now because networks etc just use the 'lineal' line to promote their 'dubious' so called champs. Fury a prime example.
     
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  4. Sooncreate3

    Sooncreate3 Member Full Member

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    Good observation. But yes, there were cases in heavyweight history where the lineal champ wasn't the best fighter at heavyweight. Like look at Shannon Briggs when he won a controversial decision over Foreman in 1997. Briggs was never seen as the best heavyweight but was still the man to beat regardless on controversy. Also, Leon Spinks in 1978 after decisioning Ali when there is a beast lurking named Larry Holmes around.
     
  5. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    Even worse, that situation was like a some bad joke since Foreman clearly lost to Shculz in 1995 and should have lost that title but was saved by the judges.

    Ironically, 2 and half years later he clearly beat Briggs but was robbed himself. Imagine if Briggs decided to have a tune up against Cedrek Fields before facing Lennox Lewis? It might have resulted in Fields becoming a lineal champion in the division with prime Lennox Lewis and past prime but still great Holyfield lol
     
  6. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Well you could argue really that once Foreman was stripped, the championship was effectively liquidated and after beating Tyson, Holyfield was the man to beat. Briggs was presented as the challenger to Lewis, which to me was very telling.
     
  7. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    I don’t agree with the Usyk example though. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if someone said Usyk a top 3 heavyweight. When Joshua rematched Usyk I didn’t think they weren’t the top 2 heavyweights on the billing that night.

    If Fury were to keep fighting guff and Usyk beats any of Wilder/Hrgovic/Zhang I’d agree yes, but Usyk’s resume at heavy is still thin.
     
  8. Joe.Boxer

    Joe.Boxer Chinchecker Full Member

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    Foreman was able to make a mockery of the title because The Ring - back when it still had credibility and was viewed as an authority - had inexplicably stopped recognizing the world champions throughout the '90s.

    Doesn't matter now - boxing is dead :drooling:.
     
  9. Dementia Pugulistica

    Dementia Pugulistica Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lineal champ is nothing more than a neat bit of trivia. When you scrutinize the provenance it falls to pieces. I used to respect the Ring belt but even it is questionable these days. The current legitimate champ is decided as it always has been since the multi-belt era, by popular consensus.
     
  10. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    That there is only one champion per category, not 4 federations and within each a gold, silver and bronze champion; then Lineal Champion would be everything.
     
  11. Kratos

    Kratos Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's the man who beat the man, I think the only times the lineal heavyweight championship has been broken is when Marciano and Lewis retired.