Professional boxers fighting in amateur tournaments is essentially legalized bullying......

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Sep 30, 2019.


  1. Boxing Prospect

    Boxing Prospect Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jalolov just won the World Amateur Championships, he is however the exception to the rule.

    As for the original question, I have no issue with it, top amateurs are essentially pro's now anyway (with stipends, soft jobs, government payments, a government team including trainers and nutritionists). Some of the top UK amateurs were better off in the amateurs than they were in the pros.

    The reason to do both is to fight for your nation (amateurs) as well as your pocket (pro). As as an emerging pro your competition in the amateurs is likely much better than being in the pros for those early bouts.
     
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  2. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    The mistake you’re making is that you’re thinking of the times when the US was pro boxing. At that time the amateurs were exactly as you say they are now. It was a training ground for the professional ranks.
    That’s simply not the case today. Now the rest of the world joins in on the pro game. In the Soviet Union and Cuba, the amateur game was everything. In many Eastern European countries it is still everything. There’s a reason why the best amateurs also tend to make the best pros. That’s where boxing is developed and perfected. That’s why the Loamchenko’s, Usyk’s, Rigo’s and Beterbiev’s can step into the pro game and dominate from the start, win titles with few fights. They don’t need the experience of knocking over paid cannon fodder to hype themselves up for the US market. They can step right in.

    You simply don’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t understand pro or amateur boxing today.
     
  3. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Which elite pro’s are fighting amateurs?
     
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  4. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Representative of the #SocialistElite Full Member

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    No, it's really not. They're fighting under the same rules, have to make the same weight and have to use approved equipment. Just because that Uzbek dude iced someone doesn't remove the fact that pro's in the last Olympics didn't fare very well at all. You get amateurs of all ages, you get pros of all ages. You'll have amateurs fighting people less seasoned than them, you have pros fighting people less seasoned than them; there's no substance to this argument at all.

    If you don't like the idea of people with more experience fighting someone with less experience then boy are you watching the wrong sport.
     
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  5. DanielDimov

    DanielDimov Jabbing all night Full Member

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    How do they manage to win then?
     
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  6. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Amateurs are nowhere near world class as gold medalist, they are green as hell, you don`t think winning a world title is harder than winning a gold medal? Amateur fighting looks really messy compared to the pros.
     
  7. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Win what? A gold medal? Because they are better than the amateur they are pitted against, when they turn pro they get more seasoned, there level of competition steadily improves as they improve, unless they are Loma who is the exception to the rule because he`s so good and so well tutored.
     
  8. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well I just think there needs to be a limit, maybe what you`re saying is true but my point is when amateurs turn pro they are not ready for world class fighters and are brought along slowly as they improve their craft, they are not ready made champs, maybe the pros that have gone back to amateur level and lost were never world class fighters so that`s fine, but only a certain grade of pro should be allowed to fight amateurs because they are not the finished article yet, if that makes any sense to you.
     
  9. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fair enough.
     
  10. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If a boxer is perfected as an amateur then are you trying to say an amateur can win a world title in his debut bout then? Do you see my logic?
     
  11. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Representative of the #SocialistElite Full Member

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    I understand your point but I just don't think there's enough to back you up. N'Dam did terribly when he went back to AM. And some AM fighters do step up very quickly. But regardless, you can have 40 fights as a pro and end up fighting an AM with 70 fights. If it's under AM rules, those pro fights don't really count for much as if you try and fight like a pro you'll likely just get schooled.
     
  12. Boxing Prospect

    Boxing Prospect Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think the way the WBA hand out titles makes it easier to win a world title to be totally honest, the opportunity comes up more often as well. The messy style is certainly more suited to the short distance of an amateur fighter than a 12 round affair. We had 2 world class pros in the Olympics and both flopped in 2016 and Takayama failed to even make it to the Japanese amateur nationals this year.

    The amateur system is weighted in favour of amateur fighters in every way, compared to professionals. The weight is the most notable, with the same day weigh ins not helping any professional that turns their hand to amateur boxing.

    Some amateurs are green, others aren't. You look at the truly elite amateurs and when they turn pro they are "pro ready", their wasn't any doubt with the likes of Lomachenko, Usyk, Madrimov, and the such.
     
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  13. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Active Member Full Member

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    Problem is the Olympics are a joke and don't even know what they're supposed to be. They started as a European amateur sporting festival then became a globalist entity which has become monetised. All these sports became professionalised and the Olympics are caught somewhere in between. Some sports are entirely professional at the Olympics, such as tennis. If you don't do that in tennis, it makes a mockery of the gold medal, since that amateur college player ain't beating Nadal or Djokovic etc. and everyone knows he doesn't deserve the prestige of Olympic gold medallist. And in this way boxing is also rather laughable. Let the pros in.
     
  14. MrFoFody

    MrFoFody Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What about the fully matured 20 something year old amateurs with over 200+fights competing against teens with 10-20 matches under there belts?
     
  15. Malph

    Malph Active Member Full Member

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    I think the Ant is missing the point about the AM and Pro games being different. Three rounds vs twelve rounds. More about boxing and less about damage. There is overlap of course but there are differences. It is not just a training ground for future pros. It's not designed to be expressly a training ground for future pros. Its its own thing. In some countries it is a very prestigious thing.

    The games are different. A amateur, even a very good one, is wise to take a little time to adapt to the pro game.

    A great example of this us Loma vs Salido. There is no way Salido would have beaten Loma in an amateur match. He would have been disqualified many times over. I believe he came in overweight as well.

    However, in the pro setting, with a different and looser interpretation of the rules, Salido gave Loma an education in prize fighting.

    No way was Salido the better technical boxer. He was though, far more experienced in prize fighting and he used that experience effectively.

    Different game. Different tactics allowed. Different scoring.
     
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