Professionals weighing in on old timers' abilities?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 4, 2021.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    13,577
    7,240
    Jun 30, 2005
    There are a few trainers on here, and several former competitors. But with all the arguments that develop on this forum about whether early fighters' styles would get them killed today, we really haven't seen many top professionals weigh in.

    So this is the thread to post every source you have where a professional fighter or trainer comments on the abilities of early boxers. (By early, I mean guys like Johnson, Jeffries, Fitzsimmons, Corbett, Tunney, Dempsey, etc.)

    From Ali's mockery of Dempsey's fight with Willard, to Tyson's opposite opinion of the same champion... Post 'em if you got 'em.
     
    Kamikaze likes this.
  2. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,083
    11,320
    Aug 16, 2018
    What's the point of this thread? More disrespect to innovators of the sport? I have had my share of arguments with folks in hypothetical matchups between era's but these kind of threads serve no purpose. The classic forum should be about honoring fighter's not shitting on them. Enough already.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    13,577
    7,240
    Jun 30, 2005
    No, the purpose is not to mock or disrespect older fighters. It's to get an objective idea of how the experts weigh in on the kinds of "hypothetical matchups" we see constantly on this forum.

    The answer has nothing to do with their greatness. It's just an assessment of how they'd be expected to perform in a modern ring.

    And you're just taking for granted that modern professionals will denigrate older fighters. Why? Ali did with Dempsey, sure, but Tyson decidedly DID NOT have a low opinion of Dempsey. I deliberately juxtaposed the two because there's apparently a range of opinion among top professionals.
     
    White Bomber, Bokaj and Kamikaze like this.
  4. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,083
    11,320
    Aug 16, 2018
    Fair enough. Just so sick of these threads turning into now against then threads as opposed to wow, that dude fought his balls off and died way early and broke but influenced hundreds if not thousands of fighter's to fight their way out of the gutter.
     
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    13,577
    7,240
    Jun 30, 2005
    Yeah, I might as well make it clear from the outset that the "old-timers" were generally an impressive and tough group.

    And as you say: they often got ****ed over by poverty later in life, which is doubly tragic. No real safety net back then. Jeffries did better than most -- he was freaking champion of the world, for crying out loud, and a very good one -- and the best he could do was a quiet retirement as a farmer with a local boxing gym. It's not like he got to jet-set around or travel the world in his old age.
     
  6. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,422
    Jul 16, 2019
    The fighters from the golden era were real fighters, they conducted themselves as true professionals. They fought often, no excuses not to. They fought for prestige and for a purpose. They had pride and dignity, they were humble and respectful to their opponents, not boastful. They did not depend on Modern (Steroids) Nutrition, but hard work to prepare for their bouts. Their hard work showed, roadwork, sparring, skipping rope, and work on the heavy bag. Today's fighter appear spoiled, they want everything to happen now, and they are overpaid.
     
  7. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,083
    11,320
    Aug 16, 2018
    I agree with everything up until the evaluation of today's guy's. No doubt some are on steroids but most are not. Some are over paid but most are not. All wraps have their faults and glory.
     
  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,422
    Jul 16, 2019
    Agreed, but how can anybody grow to the size of the Empire State Building?, I know it is not Organic vegetables. People today want things now, life is not like that, they need old fashioned hard work to prepare for a bout.
     
  9. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,083
    11,320
    Aug 16, 2018
    I hear you to an extent. Times have certainly changed but it's all good with the bad. Back then, people of my race couldn't fight for a title because of the color of their skin. Now we have guys that fight once a year and alphabet titles. A dancer dances and a fighter fights. It is the same but different.
     
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,422
    Jul 16, 2019
    I hear you friend, I lived through that era you speak of, I experienced that too, I am 62 years old, we were told to speak only English. I also read, speak and write in Spanish. I think that Anthony Joshua fights more often than Tyson Fury, who is full of excuses and something else.
     
  11. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,494
    3,722
    Apr 20, 2010
    I think the exact opposite would happen: If we assemble a group of experienced boxing people (ex-boxers, trainers, managers or whatever), who have been involved in the sport for most of their lives... wouldn't they almost unanimously claim, that modern boxers suck compared to the great fighters from the sport's "Golden Age" 100 years ago?
     
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    13,577
    7,240
    Jun 30, 2005
    100 is too long. That's Ye Olden Times. More like whatever year they were adolescents.
     
  13. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

    4,226
    4,537
    Oct 12, 2020
    Look man- Valuev, Rahman, Byrd and Ruiz were monsters I tell ya- Your paper champions couldn’t compete in my era.
     
  14. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,494
    3,722
    Apr 20, 2010
    Whether you have been in the game for 50, 60 or 70 years, the boxers who have impressed you the most, will almost always be the ones you grew up with, read about and (possibly) saw as a youngster.
     
    White Bomber, Bokaj and cross_trainer like this.
  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    13,577
    7,240
    Jun 30, 2005
    Might be. But as a professional, you can at least see the evidence in front of your face that Jack Johnson doesn't fight like Lennox Lewis. I would hope so, anyway.
     
    White Bomber likes this.