Punching Power--Marciano or Frazier?

Which of Rocky's over 200lb opponents were ranked I'm the top 10
??
Even a die hard Rocky fan has to admit his position was weak-ish
Small heavies in Matthew's and LaStarza, past it Charles, Walcott and Moore.

 

Like RING top 10?

Louis was #1
****ell was #2
Savold and Shkor were both one loss removed from a rating I believe, or could have still been.

And for Frazier

Ellis #2
Ramos #4
Chuvalo#8

Who cares, Ramos got rated for a robbery in Mexico against a faded Terrell. ****ell got rated for fouling LaStarza to a narrow win.

Not even sure Ellis should count, at 201 Not far removed from 198 Walcott. Not like 3 pounds were were magical just because of the 200 pound threshold.


So again, what is your argument?

You got the point you are just picking on Marciano and ignoring Frazier opponents.

 

OK we'll carry on in circles Louis was finished ditto Savold, ****ell lasted 2 rounds better than he did against 163lb randy turpin and skhor doesn't count.
Frazier stopped Chuvalo, Ellis, Ramos and Mel Turnbow who George Chuvalo said was a banger

 

Ok...

Turnbow managed 2 KO wins....his entire career. He is a can. Shkor beat rated contenders, and was rated himself. He counts, Turnwho doesn't.

Ramos was nobody, home town win over a has been. I rate Shkor over him, and ****ell.

Ellis who only weighs 3 pounds more than Walcott and was a former shaky chin middle if you wish to use that against ****ell , dropped but never KOed by Frazier. Corner stoppages.

Chuvalo stopped by an aggravated eye injury.

This why you feel Frazier is a more proven puncher?


Ok....sure.


Louis over all these guys, easy.

Marciano and Frazier both piled up stoppage wins over similar sized men, Marciano was more impressive in doing so. Time to throw the Frazier knocked out bigger better men angle out the window.

 

C*ckell fouled Lastarza? I know Marciano did, but I've no info on the C*ckell fight can you post it?

 

Supposedly warned for multiple low blows with no penalty. Lastraza claimed home cooking.

Pittsburg Gazette article.

 

The referee Eugene Henderson was rated one of the best in Europe.I never heard anything untoward about him.

 

Too difficult to say with certainty. Sure Marciano showed his power to his opponents in the 50's but he wasn't hitting big quality men like Ali/Bugner/ Foreman/Chuvalo etc.. He was banging on men roughly the same size as he. Men like Walcott/Charles/Moore/Layne etc..Frazier had to contend with bigger men so maybe it looks like he didn't hit quite as hard as Rocky but we can't be sure. Jimmy Ellis, who Frazier KO'd in 1970 would've been bigger than most if not all of Marciano's opponents at over 6 feet 202lbs never mind Ali/Foreman/Bugner, all 6'3" and 210-220lbs with 80" reaches. Would Rocky have ko'd the likes of these men? Would he even reach them consistently enough to hurt them with his 67" reach? Too many questions I think before saying with certainty that one one man hit harder than the other. Give them the same opposition and we could better judge.

 

But we did see Frazier against lots and lots of good fighters the size of Walcott, Charles, Moore, Layne in Quarry, Machen, Jones, T. Daniels, Foster, and Ellis...etc. Only against Foster did he seem to display similar single shot power, and with this best fully leveraged punch.

Ellis only weighed 200+ 7 times, that's actually less than Layne. In fact, in the first decade of his career the Frazier fight is the only fight Ellis tipped 200.

Ellis and Layne were both 6'1 and usually in shape over 190 lbs. Ellis and Layne, pretty comparable in size and build.

 

I think Frazier dropping a prime Ali beats anything Marciano did punch wise.
BTW there's no need to stoop to calling fighters cans.

 

Agreed

 

I must strongly disagree.

How can dropping anybody, however durable, trump knocking somebody out cold?

Do we make Henry Cooper and Chuck Wepner all time punchers, simply because they dropped Ali?

 

Great punch against a man who was dead on on his feet. You got no argument.


You disrespected some great fighters, legends, called them weak, I called a can a can.

 

Wepner never really dropped Ali. He stepped on his foot and pushed him over with a right swing to the body.

In terms of punching power if we were to rate Frazier, Louis and Marciano. Frazier would bring up the rear.

Marciano
Louis
Frazier

Marciano gets the not as Walcott clearly gave Rocky the nod as being the harder puncher vs Louis. Frazier brings up the rear as he had only one real good punch.

 

Very different knock downs .you can see clearly the impact in the left hook of frazier in 1971 on ali and it was miles harder than wepner's and coooper's . this shot would break the neck of walcott