You make a good point. It's not just that Foreman was a big, strong puncher that made Frazier tailor made for him, but also that his best punch was the uppercut and that he was extremely physical and almost always dictated fights by pushing the guy to the right range. I also remain convinced that extremely few would be so unconcerned by good left hooks by Frazier, and I don't think Liston qualifies in this very exclusive company.
To answer the question, I'd probably make a prime Liston a favourite against the 70's crowd with the exception of an early 70's Ali. It would be a tough fight, though, and Ali would have to be at the top of his game.
Frazier - i think Liston would hammer Joe. Foreman - I think his superior punching fundamentals would carry him to a 5th round stoppage of George. Ali - Muhammad wins via late round stoppage or decision. Norton - Easy fight for Liston. Shavers - Liston via early KO. Young - Liston via decision or latter stoppage. Sonny wastes less punches than Foreman and would be more accurate vs Young. Quarry - Liston by mid to late TKO. Lyle - Liston TKO 7.
nice post. I think Ali doesn't have a chance to stop Liston this time unless it's the 75' version that met Frazier in Manila. that one is equiped to beat Liston with his jab and improved right lead. the 75' version could slug with anybody, and that includes Liston, Tyson, and foreman. how do you think prime Liston fairs vs the fosters, bugner, holmes, cooney, and chuvalo?
I see him beating Ali but not Foreman this is a fight I can't pick my feeling with foreman is if he can hit you then he will beat you, I suppose you have to ask yourself how he would handle the Liston jab but, I still feel he would get to Liston I see the fight like the Williams fight but Foremen hits harder and is more resilliant it is a close call though. Liston would handle the slower 70's Ali in a very tough all out war and maybe even knock him out.
yeah same goes with Foreman. anyone that was big and could punch was in with George. see Foreman- Lyle, Foreman- Broggs, and Foreman-Holyfeld. they all used counter punching abilities to bother and beat up George. seriously though, Liston has trouble with speed, not big slugging guys like George. Liston was cool and collected in his prime and he didn't allow himself to get drawn into a slugfest. foreman would look to slug with Liston and Liston would just counter him and once he had him hurt he would use his Jab and hook to take him out IMO. I think George is countered too easily and Liston would certainly do that as he's a very scientific and smart fighter. once again speed is what gives Liston trouble and foreman has no speed. it was ali's movement and Williams speed that gave him issues. or a fast right lead which he seemed to be vulnerable too.
Cheers. I put the stoppage down as a possible as 15 rounds (i am thinking a 15 rounder here) is a long time and Ali might wear him down. If we look at history Liston only once ever went past 10 rounds, and that was 12. Who knows what happens with an Ali after 10. Liston has virtually zero experience past 10 so anything can happen. I think Liston would stop both Fosters, possibly only decision the durable Bugner (tho Liston is surely a chance of a stoppage), i think he'd smash Cooney tho he'd have to be firing on all cylinders, Holmes i'd slightly favour to decision Sonny and possibly stop Chuvalo on his feet.
Maybe it's because Liston is use to stopping everyone. He only had 4 title bouts so that's probably why he only went 12 once. Liston had pretty good stamina and a good pace in his prime though. There was no doubt that Ali had good stamina at all times, but Liston's jab and left hook would be very useful. The 70s Ali had trouble with a good speedy jab. See Lyle-Ali and the Norton-Ali bouts. By the way, everytime Ali was knocked down, (besides the wepner bout), it was from a left hook. He always seemed to drop his right I guess. Liston would certainly take advantage of this and double up on his hooks. it would be interesting and I would probably favor Sonny to win it.
Ali would still beat Sonny. If we're talking the BEST 70's version of Ali. Still too much movement,as well as his jab and right hand. Liston would also get a bit discouraged when Muhammad would still be there after he takes Liston's best blows.
This post is worth quoting because it is so telling about how people's perceptions of Sonny Liston are far off from reality. If Young is tiny, then what is Liston, who weighed as much and was 2 inches shorter? atsch
well yeah, but Liston acted more like a heavy too. young could pass off as a light heavyweight because he looked like it. Liston was thick with muscle. I know they are the same size. But Young is not that big compared to Liston.. yeah, he's taller, but i bet if they were side to side Liston would still be the bigger of the two.