Putting Crawford's Domination & Stoppage of Errol Spence Jr. Into Its Proper Perspective.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Jul 30, 2023.


Page 5 of 10
  1. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

    28,902
    18,352
    Jul 19, 2004
    All promotions hype their fighter. Not sure why that is even a question. This is true for Top Rank, Golden boy, Matchroom. I'm not saying Spence is elite. He is a good fighter. This was a big event.
     
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    #61
  2. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

    35,844
    28,503
    Feb 25, 2015
    Not Kovalev. Dude wasn't even getting paid while he was the best LHW on the ****en planet.
     
    tinman, Jul 30, 2023
    tinman, Jul 30, 2023
    #62
    CST80 likes this.
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    242,166
    235,597
    Nov 23, 2013
    Well.... it's not necessarily Crawford's fault that his body has such terrible timing. But he always seems to be either outgrowing a division or moving into one, at the most inopportune of moments. He dominated the weakest era in recent memory of Lightweight, moved up right before Mikey and Loma showed up. Dominated 140 when it was straight up ass, left right before Taylor, Prograis, Matias, Ramirez showed up. Then moved into a derelict wasteland at 147, well past it's glory days. No Mayweather, no Pacquiao, no Cotto, no Margarito, no Marquez, no Bradley, all he has is Spence, who was feasting on the also rans, blown up 140 pounders and drained 154 pounders, most of whom had one foot out of the door. So yeah, you can unify two divisions, if they're **** divisions, just look to Claressa Shields if you want a perfect example of that. Hell, Bud could probably move up and unify 154 now, but it's also a **** on a stick garbage division at the moment.

    Fine, you want me to be consistent, it's always annoyed me that Inoue bailed on Super Flyweight, and ducked fighting Gonzalez, Sor Rungvisai, Estrada and Ioka. Do I think he was scared of them and that he wouldn't beat all four? Absolutely not. I just think it was a case of him being a growing boy who couldn't make the weight anymore and literally had to bail. Which is a pity, because wins over those four, would be GOAT level stuff. But his body simply wouldn't allow him.
     
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    #63
    Smoochie, Rollin and Serge like this.
  4. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

    28,902
    18,352
    Jul 19, 2004
    No I read it. I never said elite either. So my point stands that he is a good boxer.
     
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    #64
  5. chacal

    chacal F*** the new normal Full Member

    14,835
    12,284
    Jun 21, 2015
    Taylor, Prograis, Matias, Ramirez :facepalm:

    Ridiculous.....

    Yep, we will never agree.
     
    chacal, Jul 30, 2023
    chacal, Jul 30, 2023
    #65
  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    242,166
    235,597
    Nov 23, 2013
    Where did I say they'd beat him? Like I said, poor comprehension.

    So... you're saying they're not infinitely better than ****ing Postol, Diaz, Jean, Indongo, Dulorme, Lundy and goddamn John Molina Jr.?:lol:
     
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    #66
    Stiff Jab, DramaShow and Serge like this.
  7. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

    28,902
    18,352
    Jul 19, 2004
    Kovalev needs to get in line. There are many boxers like that. As good as JMM was he too never got the attention he deserves. Part of prize fighting is the ugly side of fighters have to pander to the casual to become a big star. Outside of Casual I do recall boxing insiders ranked Kovalev pretty high.
     
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    lobk, Jul 30, 2023
    #67
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    79,291
    129,431
    Jul 21, 2009
    It was never a 50-50 fight and Spence was never a P4P talent and he should never have been ranked in the P4P top 5

    How can someone who has only fought two career 147 pounder world champions their entire career, both of whom he struggled badly against

    Had only made one defence against a career 147 pounder world champ since winning their first world title six years ago

    Had been on mission clean out 147 of all it's career 140 pounders who came up and of course 135 Mikey

    Had fought so many featherfists and so very few punchers, especially their size

    And hadn't proven they could put in a dominant performance against a career 147 pounder their natural size once in their career

    Be ranked top 5 P4P?

    How can that be so?

    How in god's name can reputable outlets and millions of fans have him ranked above Usyk? Or other multiple weight champs like Inoue, Estrada, Ioka among others?

    Beterbiev is one weight champ three-belt unified champ like Spence was but he's been fighting career 175 pounders, on the road a bunch of times, and lots of big punchers but he wasn't ranked top 10 whereas Spence was ranked top 4 or higher by the supposedly credible outlets and countless fans had him #1 or #2.

    Seeing this insanity made me feel like I was smoking the pot in the twilight zone :facepalm:

    Imagine Beterbiev forged a career out of beating up on featherfisted 168 pounders who came up whilst the hungry young power punching lion 175 pounders were left out in the cold as he did so and was kept getting propelled up the P4P top 10 rankings for doing so?

    Imagine he had only fought two career 175 pounder world champs his entire career?

    Gvozdyk would beat the brakes of Spence's best wins if were the same size

    Callum Smith will be his first career 168 pounder champ who came up but he was one of the biggest 168 pounders you'll ever see, still huge for 175, and he's punches like a Scouse mule and has looked devastating up at 175. Sparking out career 175 pounders in HL reek or scary HL fashion

    This content is protected


    This content is protected
     
    Serge, Jul 30, 2023
    Serge, Jul 30, 2023
    #68
    ryan_c and CST80 like this.
  9. The Cryptkeeper

    The Cryptkeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,838
    5,332
    May 9, 2023
    There is no point in a rematch. Crawford beats him worse next time around at any weight.

    This will be the beginning of the end of Spence. He's been exposed.
     
    The Cryptkeeper, Jul 30, 2023
    The Cryptkeeper, Jul 30, 2023
    #69
  10. Maidanas Gun Tattoo

    Maidanas Gun Tattoo Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,424
    2,662
    Sep 29, 2017
    Plenty of us said he wasn’t as great as he was hyped to be. We went through it all week.
     
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, Jul 30, 2023
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, Jul 30, 2023
    #70
    ryan_c and CST80 like this.
  11. Stiff Jab

    Stiff Jab Despiser of Super-Middleweights Full Member

    5,109
    7,701
    Jan 7, 2019
    Liked what he had to say here but when will people stop speaking the absolute lie that is, "Inoue fought nobody"?
     
    Stiff Jab, Jul 30, 2023
    Stiff Jab, Jul 30, 2023
    #71
    CST80 likes this.
  12. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    242,166
    235,597
    Nov 23, 2013
    He's good, not elite, not great, not special. It was always going to be a one sided domination. So where is the P4P greatness there? Kovalev-Ward, Golovkin-Canelo, Loma-Haney, that's high level chess between great fighters. When one guy is levels ahead of the other going into the fight and the win is basically guaranteed, that's not necessarily an indication of the greatness of said fighter. But an indictment of the other and the wildly inflated pedestal he was put upon by fans who were simply incapable of assessing what level he was truly operating on. Bud is that same guy that struggled with The Mean Machine and Porter, he didn't just show up last night and go next level Super Saiyan on Spence's ass.:lol:
     
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    CST80, Jul 30, 2023
    #72
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, Stiff Jab and Serge like this.
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    79,291
    129,431
    Jul 21, 2009
    Let's keep this real on the 100

    Had WBA regular champ Stanionis who has had to step aside twice now for his shot stopped Spence last night instead of Crawford how much credit would he have received for doing so? Would he be hailed as a beast and it being the coronation of a new king and special talent or would the media and fans have universally deemed Spence shot to bits and irreparably damaged after the car crash?

    You know I'm right and I know I'm right too so why the hell do I still have to write what I write?
     
    Serge, Jul 30, 2023
    Serge, Jul 30, 2023
    #73
    Stiff Jab and CST80 like this.
  14. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,514
    18,128
    Dec 18, 2019
    HBO was building up a fight against Roman. They put Inoue on his undercard. Inoue called him out and his team made Roman an offer. Roman said no to fighting the 11-0 Inoue citing money.

    And Estrada, Rungvisai, and Cuadras never really showed real interest in fighting Inoue.
     
    JOKER, Jul 30, 2023
    JOKER, Jul 30, 2023
    #74
    Smoochie, MetalLicker and CST80 like this.
  15. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,811
    9,734
    Aug 1, 2012
    The problem with a rematch is, Bud will be 36 years old in September. There's only so many fights left for him while he's still considered "PRIME". (even though according to some people you can't be prime at 35 let alone 36)

    Crawford's been fighting once per year, which is probably why he's still PRIME at 35/36 because he rarely in the ring. Now, Spence has made it clear that he has no plans on fighting at 147 ever again, which creates a problem for a rematch. Why would they fight at 154 in a non-title fight in December when Crawford just became Undisputed at 147? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    I don't know where he goes from here. He just got completely destroyed by Bud at 147. If Bud intends on defending Undisputed at 147, then it's not going to be Spence. What does Bud have to gain to rematch him at 154? And another thing, wouldn't the rematch clause be at 147 for all the titles? What kind of a rematch clause would require Bud to fight him in a non-title fight at 154? If Spence wants to move up to 154, then does it really make sense to go straight into a showdown with Jermell Charlo? I mean Spence at this point is going to be a heavy underdog, pretty much no one would give him a chance against Charlo or any top 154-er after the beatdown he got by Crawford.

    This reminds me of Kambosos when he lost to Haney, got dominated but he had a rematch clause, then they went into a pointless rematch where the exact same thing happened again. Does anyone really think Spence would do better in a rematch? The whole idea is dumb, especially with Spence wanting to move up to 154.

    So the real question is what's next for Bud? Who do you want to see him fight next? Who at 147 is worthy to challenge him for Undisputed? Or does he move up to 154 to fight Jermell Charlo? Would he seriously want to move up all the way to 168 to fight Canelo? I doubt it. He's Undisputed at 147. I guess we'll have to see what happens with Canelo and Jermell in September. if Jermell somehow beats Canelo then Bud vs Jermell at 154 instantly becomes the biggest fight in boxing. If Canelo wins, then Bud vs Jermell at 154 is still an option but is that really what Bud wants, to become Double Undisputed? Or will / should he stay at 147 and finish his career there? What do you think?

    Also how many more years does Bud have in the sport? Will he continue to fight once a year and into his 40s? How long can Bud stay "PRIME"? So many questions after what happened last night.
     
    shadow111, Jul 30, 2023
    shadow111, Jul 30, 2023
    #75
Page 5 of 10