Q: How can Don Dunphy claim Louis & Marciano were better than Ali??

Thanks friend. I'm a little emotional now about my idol Joe Frazier.:verysad

 

:goodNo problem Burt, your still my man

 

Yes. I'm sad too,Burt. I make no secret of Ali being my number one,but I followed Smokin' Joe too. I'd support him whenever he was fighting anyone but Ali. A warrior !!!

 

Burt, do not listen to idiots who say this kinda thing. Utter nonsense. Your memories of fights from 40/50/60yrs ago (God almighty, did i just type those numbers???) have been described as well and as in as much detail as if it were yesterday. I think i speak for the vast,vast majority on this forum when i say that you are 1 of the most valuable posters on here. The kind of guys who use this talk to gentlemen like yourself are not to be heeded and are probably using terms like that because you've got them with a reasoned argument and they can think of nothing else to say.

Oh.......and lay off Ali

 

Thanks J for your thoughts. As a fighter I too think highly of Ali. After all,he and I [in a miniscule way] go back a long long time. I first saw Cassius Clay in MSG in about 1959 in the amateur finals against a terrific Aussie, Tony Madigan. Both Lhs, Clay eeked out a close decision. Than of course I saw him and my man Joe Frazier in the FOTC in 1971.I have ALWAYS ADMIRED his courage in the ring,no doubt. Ali along with Max Baer were the most charismatic Heavyweights ever. Who else would say to Primo Carnera, when Baer and Primo wrestled each other to the canvas "last one up is a sissie " ? That was Max Baer ! Take care...

 

I second this.

 

Burt,do you think that Baer could have been champ for a lot longer,if he'd taken things a bit more seriously ? My dad thought that he could've been a top 5 heavy,easy.

 

Stevie,Max Baer might not be the greatest HW ever, BUT he had the widest SHOULDERS EVER. Of course were Baer to dedicate himself like Rocky Marciano to relentless training, Baer would be a threat to anyone. But because of his physical nature, a short top puncher would always cause him trouble. Maxie "looped" his punches much too much for his own good. But I rate him as having the #1 chin after seeing that young Joe Louis teeing off on Baer's chin with volley's of combinations and Baer withstood these horrific blows to the jaw,and still remained conscious...Baer would always say, he was not meant to be a fighter, BUT a LOVER. And so he was. Cheers.S.:hi:

 

Sad news indeed. Made this a very somber day.

 

It is a sad vtime for all of us on ESB who admire Joe Frazier... Funny, but when I think of Frazier who I saw beat Ali at MSG,my thoughts stray more to when I saw Frazier train at Grossingers in Sullivan County, NY. I arrived
to where he was training early. Sat down by the ring, all by myself,when who walks in by himself,holding tape in his hands,but the great Joe Frazier and proceeds to sit down about 4-5 feet from me. He than start taping his hands, oblivious of my sitting a few feet from me. I wanted to say"in 1964 Joe, I saw you at the Olympic finals against Buster Mathis in Flushing NY", but I was too awed to say a word. A few minutes passed and his trainer Yank Durham arrived with a retinue of sparring partners, and Smoking Joe went to work. I kept thinking to myself, "what idiot would be foolish to get in the ring with him "? Later on after the sparring Frazier left for his shower and I and another fan talked to the gracious Durham,talking boxing. Durham I recall was very high on Rocky Marciano in our questions to Yank...This episode thinking about that long ago afternoon, makes me
nostalgic,and sad, that one of the truly GOOD guys is very sick...Joe,get better....

 

I can understand Dunphry's pick. Look, we will have no ideal who wins in these kinda of matchs ups, because it will never happen, its all guess work, Marciano is never going to fight Ali and find out who the better fighter is, we judge em on there time frames, and Marciano, Ali, and Louis is are part of a elite group that clear out there eras. When they retire, no one had ifs ands or butts who was the best.

The 3 didnt have a Jack Johnson or Harry Wills or Peter Jackson looming over them for years are in, the contenders climb to the top and these 3 knock em back down. Base on that, these 3 should be some were in the top 5 about. Louis and Ali gets the edge on Marciano for a longer rein though, but you cant take what Marciano did in his short rein as champ by destorying his divsion.