Quest for heavyweight data

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Apr 27, 2011.


  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Ok, just as a prelim, I am absolutely fascinated by the history of the heavyweight championship. It is my favourite division in boxing and I have a great desire to learn more about it every day.

    Now before I spend the next few days of my life on this, i'd like to check if anyone knows if this information is readily available?

    I'd like to list all the lineal champions (easy enough) alongside their rein in years (easy enough) and the number of top ten opponents they beat (this is what will take time).

    I know this doesn't give a full picture to a fighters greatness, but it's a start. Eventually i'd like to include title claimants who never were lineal such as langford, wills, norton etc.

    So is there anywhere I can find this info readily or is it something i'm going to have to go away and do?

    The guys on my list will be:

    Sullivan
    Corbett
    Fitzsimons
    Jeffries
    Hart
    Burns
    Johnson
    Willard
    Dempsey
    Tunney
    Schmelling
    Sharkey
    Primo
    Baer
    Braddock
    Louis
    Charles
    Walcot
    Rocky
    Patterson
    Ingo
    Liston
    Clay/ali
    Frazier
    Foreman
    Neon
    Holmes
    Spinks
    Tyson
    Douglas
    Holyfield
    Bowe
    Moorer
    Briggs
    Lewis
    Rahman
    Vitali
    Wlad

    I'll be using the ring end of year rankings. I want to list how many top ten guys they beat, how many they defended against and how many fellow champs they beat.

    My goal is to compile this list and then develop a points system to rank every champ.
     
  2. kmac

    kmac On permanent vacation Full Member

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    here's a list i made a while back for a website.

    Recognized heavyweight world champions through 1920

    During this time "The National Police Gazette" usually named these fighters as their champion. Fighters are listed with the year they were recognized by the majority of fans and media as champion.

    John L. Sullivan - 1885
    James J. Corbett - 1892
    Bob Fitzsimmons - 1897
    James J. Jeffries - 1899
    Marvin Hart - 1905
    Tommy Burns - 1906
    Jack Johnson - 1908
    Jess Willard - 1915
    Jack Dempsey - 1919

    "The Ring" Magazine heavyweight world champions

    "The Ring" was first published in 1922 and awarded a heavyweight world title along with ranking top 10 challengers. Fighters are listed with the year they were recognized by "The Ring" as champion. (1989-2001, "The Ring" did not award a title.)

    Jack Dempsey - 1922
    Gene Tunney - 1926
    Max Schmeling - 1930
    Jack Sharkey - 1932
    Primo Carnera - 1933
    Max Baer - 1934
    James J. Braddock - 1935
    Joe Louis - 1937
    Ezzard Charles - 1950
    Jersey Joe Walcott - 1951
    Rocky Marciano - 1952
    Floyd Patterson - 1956
    Ingemar Johansson - 1959
    Floyd Patterson (2) - 1960
    Sonny Liston - 1962
    Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) - 1964
    Joe Frazier - 1970
    George Foreman - 1973
    Muhammad Ali (2) - 1974
    Leon Spinks - 1978
    Muhammad Ali (3) - 1978
    Larry Holmes - 1980
    Michael Spinks - 1985
    Mike Tyson - 1988
    Lennox Lewis - 2002
    Vitali Klitschko - 2004
    Wladimir Klitschko - 2009

    WBC, IBF & WBA heavyweight title holders.

    Boxers are listed with the year they were recognized as champion by the WBC, IBF & WBA. Boxers defeated the title holder above them on the list (unless noted in parenthesis). Titles won but later stripped because of a failed post-fight drug test are not listed.

    WBC - World Boxing Council (formed in 1963)

    Sonny Liston (def. Floyd Patterson, this was the first bout sanctioned by the WBC) - 1963
    Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) - 1964
    Joe Frazier (def. Jimmy Ellis) - 1970
    George Foreman - 1973
    Muhammad Ali (2) - 1974
    Leon Spinks - 1978
    Ken Norton (awarded title after def. Jimmy Young) - 1978
    Larry Holmes - 1978
    Tim Witherspoon (def. Greg Page) - 1984
    Pinklon Thomas - 1984
    Trevor Berbick - 1986
    Mike Tyson - 1986
    James "Buster" Douglas - 1990
    Evander Holyfield - 1990
    Riddick Bowe - 1992
    Lennox Lewis (awarded title after def. Donovan "Razor" Ruddock) - 1992
    Oliver McCall - 1994
    Frank Bruno - 1995
    Mike Tyson (2) - 1996
    Lennox Lewis (2) (def. Oliver McCall) - 1997
    Hasim Rahman - 2001
    Lennox Lewis (3) - 2001
    Vitali Klitschko (def. Corrie Sanders) - 2004
    Hasim Rahman (2) (def. Monte Barrett for interim title, eventually awarded full title) - 2005
    Oleg Maskaev - 2006
    Samuel Peter (def. Jameel McCline for interim title in 2007, then won full title from Maskaev) - 2008
    Vitali Klitschko (2) - 2008

    IBF - International Boxing Federation (formed in 1983)

    Larry Holmes (awarded title) - 1983
    Michael Spinks - 1985
    Tony Tucker (def. James "Buster" Douglas) - 1987
    Mike Tyson - 1987
    James "Buster" Douglas - 1990
    Evander Holyfield - 1990
    Riddick Bowe - 1992
    Evander Holyfield (2) - 1993
    Michael Moorer - 1994
    George Foreman - 1994
    Michael Moorer (2) (def. Axel Schultz) - 1996
    Evander Holyfield (3) - 1997
    Lennox Lewis - 1999
    Hasim Rahman - 2001
    Lennox Lewis (2) - 2001
    Chris Byrd (def. Evander Holyfield) - 2002
    Wladimir Klitschko - 2006

    WBA - World Boxing Association (formed in 1921 as the National Boxing Association, changed name in 1962)

    Jack Dempsey (def. Georges Carpentier, this was the first bout sanctioned by the NBA) - 1921
    Gene Tunney - 1926
    Max Schmeling (def. Jack Sharkey) - 1930
    Jack Sharkey - 1932
    Max Baer (def. Primo Carnera) - 1934
    James J. Braddock - 1935
    Joe Louis - 1937
    Ezzard Charles (def. Jersey Joe Walcott) - 1949
    Jersey Joe Walcott - 1951
    Rocky Marciano - 1952
    Floyd Patterson (def. Archie Moore) - 1956
    Ingemar Johansson - 1959
    Floyd Patterson (2) - 1960
    Sonny Liston - 1962
    Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) - 1964
    Ernie Terrell (def. Eddie Machen) - 1965
    Muhammad Ali (2) - 1967
    Jimmy Ellis (def. Jerry Quarry) - 1968
    Joe Frazier - 1970
    George Foreman - 1973
    Muhammad Ali (3) - 1974
    Leon Spinks - 1978
    Muhammad Ali (4) - 1978
    John Tate (def. Gerrie Coetzee) - 1979
    Mike Weaver - 1980
    Michael Dokes - 1982
    Gerrie Coetzee - 1983
    Greg Page - 1984
    Tony Tubbs - 1985
    Tim Witherspoon - 1986
    James "Bonecrusher" Smith - 1986
    Mike Tyson - 1987
    James "Buster" Douglas - 1990
    Evander Holyfield - 1990
    Riddick Bowe - 1992
    Evander Holyfield (2) - 1993
    Michael Moorer - 1994
    George Foreman (2) - 1994
    Bruce Seldon (def. Tony Tucker) - 1995
    Mike Tyson (2) - 1996
    Evander Holyfield (3) - 1996
    Lennox Lewis - 1999
    Evander Holyfield (4) (def. John Ruiz) - 2000
    John Ruiz - 2001
    Roy Jones, Jr. - 2003
    John Ruiz (2) (def. Hasim Rahman for interim title in 2003, eventually awarded full title) - 2004
    Nikolay Valuev - 2005
    Ruslan Chagaev - 2007 (stripped of title due to injury and named "champion in recess")
    Nikolay Valuev (2) (def. John Ruiz) - 2008
    David Haye - 2009
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Cheers! Good stuff there!
     
  4. Squire

    Squire Let's Go Champ Full Member

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    Good luck with this, it sounds pretty interesting.
     
  5. kmac

    kmac On permanent vacation Full Member

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    no problem. the ring magazine yearly almanac has a good list of world champs/title holders for every weight class but i don't think they did one this year. at least i have not seen one.

    here's another website that has some good info.
    http://www.heavyweights.co.uk/history.html
     
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    also, if you want to look at top 10 fighters that a fighter beat, you also need to consider Matt Donnelens rankings which are on another recent thread I think it is the top 20 heavyweights one, as they are the best available prior to the rings introduction of rankings.
     
  7. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Mongoose has a lot of information on stuff like wins over top 10 ranked opposition. I'm sure he could help you out.
     
  8. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

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    Sonny Liston:

    1955:

    Marty Marshall- TKO 6- Ranked at Light-Heavyweight top 10

    1958:

    Wayne Bethea: TKO 1

    1959

    Mike DeJohn: TKO 6

    1960:

    Cleveland Williams TKO 2- Williams slipped in a number 10 spot in monthly ratings
    Roy Harris: TKO 1
    Zora Folley KO 3
    Eddie Machen: W 12

    1962

    Floyd Patterson KO 1

    1963:

    Floyd Patterson KO 1

    1968:

    Henry Clark TKO 7- Clark slipped into the top 10 in monthly ratings


    Final Tally: Liston beat 10 Ring Magazine rated contenders
     
  9. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

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    Rocky Marciano:

    1950

    Roland Lastarza W 10

    1951

    Rex Layne KO 6
    Joe Louis KO 8

    1952

    Harry Kid Matthews KO 2
    Jersey Joe Walcott KO 13

    1953

    Jersey Joe Walcott KO 1
    Roland Lastarza TKO 11

    1954

    Ezzard Charles W 15
    Ezzard Charles KO 8

    1955

    Don Cockell TKO 9
    Archie Moore KO 9

    Final Tally: Marciano beat 11 Ring Magazine rated contenders
     
  10. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

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    Joe Frazier:

    1966:

    Oscar Bonavena W 10

    1967:

    George Chuvalo TKO 4

    1968

    Manuel Ramos TKO 2
    Oscar Bonavena W 15

    1969:

    Jerry Quarry TKO 7

    1970:

    Jimmy Ellis TKO 5
    Bob Foster KO 2

    1971:

    Muhammad Ali W 15

    1973:

    Joe Bugner W 12

    1974

    Jerry Quarry TKO 5


    Final Tally: Joe Frazier beat 10 Ring Magazine rated contenders
     
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Substitute for Ring Year-end Ratings.
    A few points.
    1)
    I have no agenda, so they should be unbiased.
    2) It is year-end, not year accomplishments.
    3) I tried to keep retrospective knowledge out of the equation-difficult!
    4) The methodology used was to go through all the years and fights chronologically using guides like the late Mike Paul's excellent computer ratings, using 1892 as starting point.
    5) The ratings are the best I can do, and I will explain the rationale behind any decision but, as the current Pope is not a boxing fan, they are fallible!

    1892

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Goddard
    4. Slavin
    5. Choynski
    6. Fitzsimmons
    7. Hall
    8. Godfrey
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Kilrain


    1893

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Denver Smith
    5. Hall
    6. Goddard
    7. Slavin
    8. Choynski
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Godfrey

    1894

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Smith
    5. Choynski
    6. Maher
    7. Goddard
    8. Hall
    9. Slavin
    10. Godfrey

    1895

    Champion Maher
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3. Jackson
    4. Slavin
    5. Smith
    6. Choynski
    7. Felix
    8. Hall
    9. Creedon
    10. O’Donnell

    1896

    Champion Corbett
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3 Maher
    4. Choynski
    5. Sharkey
    6. Armstrong
    7. Creedon
    8. Goddard
    9. Ruhlin
    10. O’Donnell


    1897

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Maher
    3. Sharkey
    4. Choynski
    5. Childs
    6. Corbett
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Jeffries
    9. O’Donnell
    10. Armstrong

    1898

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Jeffries
    3. Sharkey
    4. Maher
    5. Corbett
    6. McCoy
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Childs
    9. Armstrong
    10. Choynski

    1899-1919 on the above mentioned thread.


    1920

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Greb
    5 Gibbons
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Norfolk
    9 Tunney
    10 Weinert

    1921

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Gibbons
    5 Tunney
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Greb
    9 Beckett
    10 Brennan

    1922

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Greb
    4 Gibbons
    5 Miske
    6 Tunney
    7 F.Johnson
    8 Brennan
    9 Beckett
    10 Carpentier

    1923

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Firpo
    4 Tunney
    5 Carpentier
    6 Miske
    7 Gibbons
    8 Greb
    9 Renault
    10 F.Johnson
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Thank you very much.


    Also great thanks to liston's jab for getting it started. All i'll say is i'm just focusing on heavyweight accomplishment so liston drops to 9 victories I gather?

    Thankyou very much for your help on this people, i'll keep updating regarding my findings.
     
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The top boxer record site has the Ring ratings from 1924 on but again be aware that they are year-end only.
     
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Ok perhaps the most difficult one to find a reasonable record of is sullivan.

    there could be people here who can knowingly refute any of this but by my findings, I have him beating 10 "notable" opposition (there is no ranking system to go off, other than reports and accounts at the time). Of these 10 only 1 was a title defence.

    I have the opponents as: Donaldson, Dalton, ryan (x2), Elliot, Mitchell, Slade, Mcaffrey, Herald Kilrain (Defence).

    It has been quite difficult researching sullivan because of the lack of complete records and the tendancy to call a fight an exhibition but that's what I can come up with.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    So so far I have sullivan, corbett, marciano, liston and frazier compiled.