Question for those who were around in the 70's...

..............I was three years old at the time, and can distinctly remember thinking he was being used merely as a puppet of the black muslims. I sat in my crib and pondered that quite a bit. Yes I did. :bart

 

No, it was not the draft thing that made me root for Joe Frazier in '71, rather, it was the fact that I have always been somewhat iconoclastic in regards to popular favorites whoever they happen to be, celebs that people make too much of a big deal about. That and the fact that I was convinced at the time that Ali was a bit on the racist side, and his devotion to the Nation of Islam somewhat proved that. I know that Ali became all warm and gushy with the libs in the media and the darling of the lib intelligensia, per se, and today, with Thomas Hauser and others making a religion out of him and all, it isn't fashionable to dwell on all the racist crap Ali spewed out about white people. He should have been intelligent enough to know that not ALL white folks felt the same way on things, but that "white devil" **** was his deal back in those days. He was quoted in some periodical as saying that he wouldn't let his kids ever "shake the hand of a white man", for instance. People who idolize him nowadays seem to have forgotten about all that racist crap he used to put out.

 

.............About a year before.

 

I was a little older than Sal, but still a kid myself, and anybody my age or older was aware of what was going on in the country. I remember being caught in the middle of two processions of vehement protesters about the time of FOTC, one a group of young long hairs parading for peace, the other made of ill-fitting uniformed VFW middle age guys. They met at the corner of Forbes and Wood where I stood in downtown Pittsburgh and the only thing that kept them from tearing each other apart was a troop of city police officers on horseback. Americans ten or more years older than I was were torn between the values of their fathers and the ones that seemed more enlightened and righteous. Was it a book or a movie that was entitled, "What If They Gave a War and Nobody Came?"

They always say that religion and politics are two subjects best avoided, but a boxing forum seems the perfect place to address this, so here goes.

There aren't many things worse in my opinion than a "Chicken Hawk," a guy or a gal that screams for blood but is not in the fight themselves and never has been; a sentiment that is relative to both war and boxing. Guys who refused the draft in those days were called cowards and traders and just flat unpatriotic, something you hear attributed these days to anybody who has the audacity, I'd call it guts, to object to the Iraq War. "Beware the Military/Industrial Complex," who said it? An ex-general in the American military, and also ex-President of the United States, Dwight Eisenhower.

Was he a traitor? A Coward? Unpatriotic? How 'bout Wesley Clark? You have to have a feel for what was going on in this country during the Vietnam War, the first major American conflict, second if you count Korea, that was unprovoked, when the country truly was divided in two camps. Families were at odds, lifelong friends estranged, college campuses split down the middle, Ali was just one guy, a famous one and a figurehead because of who he was, but on the street where I grew up half the big guys went to Vietnam and the other half, minus the 4f's, either went to Canada or just disappeared. I've since had talks of this with both types, and almost to a man they agree that it took alotta guts either way.

Are we really that naive to think that our governments don't lie to us? It's a business, lemme say that again, and never more than now has war meant big profit, no war in the history of wars anywhere has been more privatized than has Iraq. To answer your question whether Ali's refusal of the draft made me root one way or another, for myself, I'd answer no, but many were those who did lean either way because of Ali's stance. I have no animosity either way. Individuals, which is all Ali was, regardless of his fame, were victims then just as they are now, and I don't pass judgement on a kid today who sees little financial future for himself, so enlists to jump start his career or just grab a nest egg he can use to put down on a house or start a business or an older guy/gal to save his wife and kids.

Frazier, like alotta people in the public eye in that time, to my knowledge kept his views on Vietnam to himself. Most people then and now are not all that political; but I'll bet if you asked Joe then or now whether it is ok to throw someone and unwarranted street beating, he'd have no problem answering that one. Ali was outspoken, was political, was 4f before he became such an embarrassment to the Nixon administration; coincidence, not a ****in' chance!

 

I think that's a bit unfair on Hauser. He does touch upon much of the hypocrasy and biggotery Ali displayed during those years. I don't think he sweeps that under the rug at all. Many other white "liberals" have, but Hauser shouldn't really be slung in with them.

 

I think I speak for a lot of the boxing fans at the time in that it didn't really matter. Sports were separate from politics in my mind. I was seventeen at the time, experimenting with drugs, anti-Vietnam and loved Ali (second favorite fighter to Floyd Patterson of course )
All my group of 'fight friends' were rooting for Ali, but we were scared and knew that Smokin' Joe was a warrior and a force to be reckoned with. I remember saying the afternoon before the fight that one of these guys is going to have a loss on their record tomorrow morning, the pre-hype was amazing!
In retrospect, Muhammad IMO got a lot of 'free passes' during his career, his bum of the month fights post-George, no Foreman rematch,
etc...
He tortured Floyd, called Frazier an ape, etc...but I think if you were to talk to him now he would sincerely regret many of the things he said and did, just call it a sign of the times.
I still think he was the greatest HW of all time; we never saw a 'prime' Ali, circa summer of 67 to the summer of 70.

My $0.02

 

I feel it is the opposite ... the fight was perhaps the hugest of all time precisely because of the political impact of the age ... Ali became a monster anti-establishment figure while Frazier, blacker, poorer and harder than Ali ever was, became the figure of the establishment ... it was an extremely volitile time in US history and the fighters and the fight became symbols of an age ...

I personally feel Ali was easily influenced and manipulated at the time but he has proven through the decades that his commitment to this religion is legit and has to be respected for it ...

I can go on and on about this but I think the point is made ..

 

I have never seen The fight of the century.

 

.............It's worth seeing, but drastically overrated.

 

I was thirteen at the time and a huge fan of Ali I was also against the war I had also just started to grow my hair long which was at the time for a thirteen year old very radical I remember being very proud that I had the longest hair in my school year at the time. Anyway I was completely devastated that he lost, I watched it on TV, I knew little about boxing although my father had been an amateur for a short time, it wasn't possible to access boxing tapes, there were no videos then.

Times have changed I am no longer a great fan of Ali's and I realize how bad communism is and was and I don't have much hair at all now.

 

Chris, have you seen the HBO doc on the Superfight 1 ? If not, try to. It's pretty good and will give you a feeling of what the time was like here in the U.S.

 

Mate, this one was absolutely huge at the time! Even non-boxing people couldn't stop talking about the match as the date grew closer.

In Australia I don't think too many people were that interested in the Draft issue. It was more about the Old Champ and the New Champ, and who was going to come out on top.

The resulting match was no let down either. An amazing performance by Ali, no question, especially under the circumstances. Equally, an amazing performance by Frazier, who remains one of boxing's most underated champions.

I often wonder, as I'm sure Joe does, how history would have remembered Frazier if he'd managed to edge out Ali in their matches?