Questioning calzaghes ATG status

Imo his resume is wayyyy too thin to make a top 100, and no I do not have a top 100. But as the other guy said, guys like Barrera and Morales were good fighters with big names, and like Calzaghe they're first-ballot hall-of-famers. But both of those guys have pretty thin resumes as well, even though their series of fights should count for double credit. Most people would say that Barrera and Morales have better resumes than Calzaghe (I disagree). But I highly doubt any of those 3 guys would crack a true top 100 based solely on resume/quality of opposition. But then again, neither would Roy Jones...which brings me to my main point:

Calzaghe is easily top 100 in a p4p/h2h ATG list. Easily. As is Jones. (I highly doubt Barrera and Morales would make that list)

So for me, speaking purely in terms of demonstrated fighting ability, Calzaghe ranks very high. Same with Jones. Neither guy has the resume to back up the talent, however. There's all kinds of reasons for that and I'm not saying either guy deliberately avoided challenges (well alright, we know Jones did but still), but the fact is you can't put them up there with guys like Fitzsimmons, Langford, Greb, Armstrong, Robinson, etc. when it comes to accomplishments because they simply didn't accomplish as much. I have no problem believing that Calzaghe and Jones would tear apart many if not most of the guys that accomplished more than they did, so I think it's appropriate to separate ATG speculation into categories: Top X based on accomplishments, Top X based on p4p fighting ability, etc.

The very best of the best would likely be similar on each list though. For example: Greb and SRR would be top 2 on the first list and no lower than top 5 on the much more subjective second list. Duran would have to be top 10 in both, etc.

But yeah. Depends on what you like I guess.

 

a champion is measured by his opposition. that said, my dick is bigger than calzaghe.

 

Agreed! :good:yep

 

everyone questions Joe's ATG status. If he were Ray Leonard he would come back and beat the winner of the super 6 and prove them all wrong. But Joe looks like he is staying retired.

 

MAG1965 - If Froch wins the super 6 and there's enough money on the table Calzaghe probably will fight him. As many others have said, the super 6 has created names more than anything else, more hype than substance. Calzaghe always fought everyone he could at 168 and I refuse to believe that it was weak the whole time he was a champion and suddenly became so before he became champion and stoped being so after he retired. He was a champ for 10 years. The real reason people say it was a weak division is because their was no American names, that's why Lacy was hyped to the high heavens.

I'm sorry but ESB fans are so fickle. You can't be champ for ten years and beat prime Kessler, Reid, Eubank, Hopkins and many other top names and not be an all time great. Andre Ward was only able to beat an injured and inactive Kessler as convincingly (Calzaghe was beating Kessler by those scores after 11 + there was no cut) and an inactive Bika less convincingly (I don't care how they scored it.)

 

I don't rank him that high. He's ATG but not top 100

 

You could perhaps make an argument that he is in the top 100 ATG list as it's all subjective but not the top 50 not even close.

When you consider over the last century and more how many great fighters there have been, many who have been forgotten by some boxing fans, then it's no insult not to make the top 100 list as few ever do.

 

He's British so he's outside the top 100. If he was from the US he'd be number 11 though.....

I'd say he deserves to be somewhere in the middle.

The fighters Joe fought and people slate are the same quality that the S6 are fighting now and everyone raves about their "strong resumes". If they fought Joe and lost, you'd be calling the whole S6 "B class bums". Joe was so dominant he made people look bad.

Plus he didn't fight too many US hyped fighters, if he did, even if the quality was the same as the "euro bums" he fought he'd be rated higher.

 

Therein lies the difference. Without being tooo critical......the "0" is too important for that to happen.

Agreed on all of these for the most part. There is no shame. People on both sides of the Calzaghe debate need to keep it in perspective.

 

What is your definition of an A fighter?

IYO....who were they?

 

what a load of crap. the only reason he's undefeated is because he's british. you're able to hide in europe with a belt and because of fan support, you can fool some people into thinking you're a great fighter. (see calzaghe, ottke, dariusz m., erdei) in the US during joe's time, he would have gotten his ass kicked in the amateurs and then had to go through real fights in the beginning of his pro career. the american boxing fans wouldn't have accepted anything less. his resume at 168 is pathetic and joe is celebrated for wins over a 43 yr old hopkins (3 yrs removed from 2 defeats to taylor) and one-month shy of 40 jones (4 yrs removed from ko losses to tarver and johnson).

 

i wouldnt worry about it. one mans atg is another mans hypejob in this sport. its the sport with the most fickle fans in the world. all it takes is one loss and fighters are useless. plus everything subjective in boxing, judges sometimes cant even agree on who won fights, especially when you have judges who appreciate different styles.

in some poeples eyes calzaghe lost to hopkins so to some calzaghes record is false. to others he won the fight which makes him an atg. if you rate him thats cool. best not to listen to other people.

 

stfu you whining *****! your clearly shaking with anger about this. whats the matter? you feel the need to big up your poor american boxers? calzaghe was a great fighter, just let it go!

 

who's whining?? sounds like you. he was a good fighter, nothing more. the credit he's got by some for defending a paper belt vs nobodies for years and then beating two great fighters when they were old is disgraceful. true fight fans aren't fooled. you'll understand years down the road when no one mentions joe's name.