Questions for Burt: Legends vs. the 90's

Rez, yes I saw young Rocky Marciano obliterate a terrific bigger heavyweight prospect Carmine Vingo in MSG in 1949. Vingo was on deaths bed after the ko but thankfully recovered after many months in the hospital . I also saw Marciano train at Grossinger's in Sullivan County NY from 3 feet away from the ring.To see Marciano batter his sparring partners from close up was something to behold...Yessir.
As to how Rocky would fare against the later Holmes era. Very well indeed. Awkward and ungraceful was Marciano but he always got the job done and his shortness was to his advantage...
As far as Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis is concerned I have always thought that both Dempsey and Joe Louis were the 2 greatest offensive heavyweights ever because of their litheness, fast hands and explosive powers that would most likely nullify the bigger mastadons of later years...It is not a coincidence that both Dempsey and Louis had their greatest success against much bigger and slower men...I also thought that the young Mike Tyson had a chance to ko any heavyweight ever with his explosive power, but much like the great FW Terry McGovern he peaked early and was not as successful later on. I also liked Joe Frazier a true warrior in and out of the ring..
Frazier gave me a great thrill when I saw him beat Ali at MSG in
FOTC in 1971...ciao R...

 

Carmine Vingo was 19 years old with 17 pro fights against virtually all tomato cans ( one of whom beat him ) and at 6'4", 189 lbs looked like a fawn struggling to stand on his hind legs... This is supposed to build a case for Rocky beating the best of the 80's and 90's how?

 

was this after Marciano hit him ??

 

Bedtime stories are so comforting.

 

Right after he exited the womb..

 

What about the Rock's pure punching power, personally I have never seen more brute bonecrushing force on film.... I have watched the first Walcott fight like a hundred times, one of my very favourite fights ever... I did meet a bloke years ago who was there for that, he was in the third row from ringside and he said he went there with a clean white shirt and left with a shirt so drenched in blood that there were just a few spots of white left on it. He reckoned it the best fight he ever attended and when I asked his opinion of Rocky I got a one word answer,... "AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Oh this is awesome so you saw Carmine Vingo fight as well ? Burt did and yet you dismiss Burt's opinion outright ????... tomato cans ? I bet you wouldn't said that to a single one of those tomato cans to their face now would you ?? if you like I can set you up with a meeting with Heavyweight veteran Bob Mirovic and see how brave you are, I really can get you face to face with him, to you he's just a guy who lost to Valuev and Botha and some other guys like Kali Meehan... don't worry Bob is just a little guy who dwarfs me and I am taller than Marciano was.

Oh yeah Bob is now 50 years old and still trying to win that elusive fourth Australian Heavyweight Title.. he fights again in a couple of months... 50 years old mate.... you should be ok eh ?

 

It's a bit harsh to judge a fighter on such early outings.

 

And its a bit of a stretch to make a case for a man fairing well in the 80's and 90's for beating a guy who never graduated from his early outings.

 

The late "John Garfield" (Joe Rein) posted some interesting reminiscences of Marciano too. He saw Marciano train up in Grossingers or Stillmans too.
The way he describe Marciano's sparring of which I'll never forget the gist.

(If I remember rightly) .... He said you could watch Marciano spar and at first it seemed like he was some smallish, unexceptional clumsy guy getting outboxed and clobbered, missing wildly, but as the round wore on you'd notice that the sparring partners were the ones getting bruised up and busted and tiring really bad, and Marciano would seem to grow physically as you realized his physical presence, he was some kind of force of nature impressing itself on his opponent.

I think a lot of fans don't realise the truly freakish, almost intangible qualities of some of these fighters.

 

the mythical, almost immortal qualities either.

 

Mr Magoo, Have you ever seen young Carmine Vingo either on early tv or in person ? Have you ? I thought not...Well I saw young Vingo fight on early tv twice and I and my dad were very IMPRESSED enough that we later bought tickets to see Vingo fight a fighter from Brockton ,Mass
who was unknown to most of us fight fans...So who are you to call Vingo's opponents a bunch of "tomato cans "?...The Vingo I saw on tv and the brave Vingo I saw tearing into the block of granite named Marciano, was a helluva prospect in spite of your "expertize"...

 

I didn't see anyone do that.

burt, to which this thread is addressed, answered two of the questions posed by reznick.
namely ,
1. Have you seen Rocky Marciano fight?
2. How do you think he would've fared in Larry Holmes time?

Maybe you're thinking he was basing his answer to question 2 on his answer to question 1. I interpret it as just him answering reznick's questions. Maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, burt probably knows Vingo better than any of us, having seen the fight. A mere 66 years ago.

 

Sorry, but I don't think they exist.