Quitting. How does it affect a legacy?

Depends on the context. Seems like Liston gets the biggest pass out of all the quitters. And it's unwarranted. Tyson "quitting" against McBride at his age, condition, and style is absolutely meaningless.

 

I agree, the quitting would be meaningless, but the trying to bite his nipple off his meaningful and hilarious. It also increases his mythical H2H mojo, for me.

 

not much as shown with Duran. It matters who the fighter quits against.

 

Disagreed

I think Liston is the most affected by this. His legacy in the boxing sport would be much greater had he magically not fought Ali

 

Unfortunately legacies are too often forged at the end of careers. Look at Julio Chavez. SOme people have lasting images of of him on the canvas against Tszyu instead of his 94 - 94 career achievements

 

Yeah, I thought it was bad but now that I think about it, although it was quitting, he may have saved his career instead of ending up like Vargas {against Tito}.
He also could have stayed down at one point and acted like he couldn't get up. I think some have done that in the past.



As far as the Thread, I think it depends. Some fighters quit towards the end of their careers. I don't think Arguello sitting on his ass against Pryor II will destroy his legacy. Or Oscar quitting against Pac because of the situation.
I remember them giving Tszyu hell as well but he too was at the end of his career and he looked exhausted from the mid-point and was taking flush shot after shot while his mouth was open. His retirement right after which was also noted that he may have had a severe concussion from the fight, may also be something to help ease up on things. But...this is boxing. Either accept getting KTFO or...well, that's it. NO QUITTING.

And some fighters, they don't quit and they end up dead. So when is enough?
Now if you die, WOW, sad day in boxing of course for that day with the "R.I.P." crap that goes on in the forum and Atlas giving a speech and so on. People questioning if the ref should have stopped the fight sooner and so on. Now if that fighter had quit when his body and even his mind may have been suggesting it, he would be labled a "quitter."
So when is it OK to stop a fight?

 

Medical reports later on would suggest it was a good move. He had a serious injury.

 

It depends on the steaks. There are acceptable freak injurys where the guy is down with pain alone. -not concusion or exhaustion but like a shoulder coming compleatly out, evry one has had a busted nose but there are freak injurys when a nose gets caught bad and it colapses or george chuvalo when frazier damaged his eye socket. these are acceptable.

For me a world champion who has sacraficed too much and acheived what so many ruin their lives failing to acheive and quit for a lot less. unless its something like the above it is not acceptable. sonny liston- buster douglas- roberto duran did let themselves down even though they proved they had heart previously.

 

He quit a second time against Pat Lawlor with an injured shoulder.

Hardly fighting through to the death though is it?

 

Some would argue if you have one good shoulder, that's all you need. Danny Williams comes to mind.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1jzjTjIhY[/ame]

Concussions are very dangerous. More so than a torn shoulder. That's your brain you are talking about. If that brain bleeds or swells...you are ****ed.

 

I am sorry, but this is revisionism at its very best. That "title" wasnt half as important as Sam Langford's World Title, Harry Wills' World title, Peter Jackson's world title, Jimmy Bivins world title etc.

 

good point, you called me on that

i was sleeping on the keyboard:tired

 

Depends on the magnitude of the fight, and the status of the fighter who quit at the time. And the punishment taken.

I judge Liston and Duran harshly because they quit in BIG FIGHTS, they were CHAMPIONS at the time. And they weren't being beaten up.
Liston and Duran are possibly the worst quit jobs in history.

Tyson quit against Holyfield, in the bite fight. That qualifies 100% as a quit job, and a disgrace otherwise, but at least it could be argued that he'd taken one proper beating from Holyfield already (in their first fight).

Somebody like Jess Willard I would exonerate purely on the amount of punishment he took against Dempsey. I mean, he got up 7 times in round 1 and his face was a gory mess by the 2nd round.