Quitting. How does it affect a legacy?

If Primo Carnera was on his feet at the final bell against Max Baer, that may have drastically changed his perception and standing through the next several decades. On the film, it looks as though he might be conceding the title on his feet. (The alternative allegation is that he was complaining about being fouled.) Max Baer UD 15 Primo Carnera has a very different look to it than TKO 11.

 

Trying to discuss "quitting" in boxing is as inane and redundant as trying to discussing religion or politics. :-(

 

Then you must not be familiar with the rankings some of our best posters have of Liston. It's as if his quit job isn't even factored. Hardly it's acknowledged when you compare the anti-Duran brigades going around (Whose quit job is hardly as bad).

Your right with your last statement. But it's as if his quit jobs are justified and erased BECAUSE he fought Ali. I don't buy that... had he lost with grace his legacy holds up much better in my view. But he gets a pass...

 

No

 

No

 

This thread reminds me of the line 'Tiredness makes a coward out of the bravest man' - it seriously does. So quiting in old age, when exhausted, when you've tried your hardest and been beaten pillar to post isn't nearly as bad as other quit jobs. Adrenaline helps overcome pain, when you're tired/old you no longer have the same levels of hormones/adrenaline etc, we all know old men who were once brave reduced to being scared of everything

Muhammed Ali the 'Greatest' wanted to quit numerous times but his corner wouldn't let him. Yet when talking about heart/courage, most mention Ali.

Most fighters want to quit 1 time or another, sometimes they suck it up, sometimes they quit when they don't really need to quit thinking 'I've had enough, its not working I can't take this anymore' and I'm sure they regret straight away. Duran and Vitali come to mind, especially Vitali as he could have won that fight. I think Vitali was feeling seriously tired down the stretch, it wasnt just the shoulder, many fighters fight with worse shoulder injuries

Some fighters when they start to lose go into survival mode, this is quiting in that they have given up trying to win the fight. Some fighters quit when they stay down when they could have got up.

 

There comes a time when a boxer doesn't want to fight anymore, doesn't want to hurt himself anymore. They either don't care about the sport anymore, don't want to take thei body to the same depths of pain they once experienced, don't have the same pain tollerance and don't have the same adrenaline/hormone levels of their younger years. Happens to the best of them if they stay around long enough

 

This.

I remember hearing a bunch of crap from naysayers regarding Tsyzu retiring in the corner versus Hatton. Later it was revealed he had bleeding on the brain. These guys give so much to the fans, and yet some would have them give the unthinkable.

 

Right on. When you've gotta go, you gotta go. He quit himself, Leonard didnt make him.

 

Disagree....I don't think Tyson quit against Holyfield.

Against Williams and McBride yes.
Against Evander? No he pretty much snapped. There are far better ways to quit in a fight.

 

Quitting as in Jess Willard vs Dempsey or Duran vs Leonard (no mas) or Liston vs Ali I? I mean, quitting to keep yourself from dying is quite different from the other type of surrender..as in times past, when that type of quitting was seen as the hallmark of being a "dog", i.e. gutless and having no heart. It's quite damaging to a fighter's legacy only when the quit job is seen as evidence that the quitter hasn't got the heart of a warrior..a warrior, as in Jim Braddock vs Joe Louis, when he had absolutely no chance, yet he had the balls to go out "on his shield"...to not meekly give up the title that he was blessed to win.

 

I don't think you get it. We know Tyson wasn't motivated and just fighting for money. Not only that, but he was an absolute shell of himself. And he was spent by the time he quit.

Even in a meaningful fight, Ali's corner stopping the fight against Holmes means absolutely nothing against his legacy.

Tyson had his knee messed up from the Williams fight. By the time he was fighting McBride he was in a completely insignificant fight for money. It's just like when LaMotta quit in fights toward the end of his career. It just doesn't mean much. It's Tyson, and it's fresh in our minds so it still has an impact for some.

Even Oscar quitting against Pac isn't really anything to condemn. He was getting beat bad, and he tried but what's the point. Sometimes the tired old "Once great" champion has the right to give in. He fought his fights... and he has nothing left to give.

 

The more I look at the vid of De la Hoya-Pac, I see that Oscar was getting punished pretty badly..Pac was really laying it on him to the point where Oscar was probably concerned that all his future enterprises would be in severe jeopardy and that the possibility that he would have to let others think, decide and act for him in lieu of Oscar not having the necessary grey matter to function with. In that case, quitting was a smart option to staying in the fight and getting his brains beat out.