Rahman vs Liston: Who has the size advantage?

No dramas JT. Thanks.

Just a tempo-ban, or shall we say a temper-ban? Nah, kidding. Seriously no emotional investment, no anger involved - but anyway, it’s all good. Really appreciate your supportive comments.

As to the Interlocutor Ping G425 Max 1000 Mark II.

Great piece of equipment. Sometimes it is just as much about the quality of the tools as it is about the skills of the tradesman.

Along those lines, or possibly at a complete tangent or altogether irrelevant, here’s a guy who wanted to up his “game” with the Mrs.

While visiting his client in the lock up, he was kindly gifted the AI, Mark I, Max 1000 RPM. Looks lethal.

This content is protected

 

Oh, okay, you didn’t submit this as an actual reply - so no alert.

You’re still playing for more air time on this even after your inappropriate, self serving multiple posts during my hiatus? - the details and nature of which I’ve already broken down correctly in just one reply.

Gunning for not only for the first word(s) but the last word(s) and the most words too - as usual. I invited an appropriately “timed” welcome back, no more, no less. It seems you can’t help yourself.

My last post was perfectly on point, accurate and succinct. You’re simply equivocating on your own errors, incomplete readings and overall flawed approaches in an unreasonable attempt to mitigate - damage control phase, replete with false narratives and reframing of orig. positions and context, which your are very much prone to in follow up.

Thus we are presented with never ending succession of posts of ever increasing length - to accomodate the double talk and false extrications. Not at all charitable or honest - particularly for a would be moraliser and pontificator marked by his very own inconsistencies in those regards.

See if you’re actually NOW big enough to move on - since you did initiate and persist in inappropriate and false submissions re my time out and during same no less.

 

Whether I write long detailed posts or not, you will avoid specifics & make general claims about me being wrong-& not even having good intentions.
I was not "inappropriate" or false.
In my last post I again threw out olive branches.
Ask anyone privately if I was charitable & honest-like assuming you are not attempting to do the opposite by ignoring my continual & sincere efforts to help you get back here when it was thought you were permanently banned.

I never try to have the "most" words, but express how I see things in great detail.
Likewise having something else to say is not trying to have the last word-but fruitlessly trying to censor someone, ordering them to stop writing & neither accepting any good intentions from them nor deal with details is the way of endless conflict & bitterness.

While I am pretty sure you will not again get outrageously abusive so you can remain on this website, I would rather it was through some personal insight, growth, goodwill...
That would be taking a time out well; not remaining silent when you could not possibly content it nor justify extended abuses.

I hope you will not again speak in demeaning "I was right, you never even meant well" terms that are the essence holding on to anger & of "not letting things go".
It is not "bigger" to choose to reply when someone is completely unfair & incorrect even about your obvious intentions-without name calling, hate or mockery.
I would do it for someone else, but remained silent when abuse was not solely flowing in one direction.

Again check with pretty much anyone; I did wish you well & repeatedly asked about helping lobby for your return.
I am glad it was not necessary.
But do not expect it remotely possible to silence me because you choose to not let things go...
Or persuade even yourself that I was not trying to keep you around when told it was curtains, or that you are somehow the persecuted or maligned one here.

 

Still can’t help yourself.

I’m far more specific and on point than yourself - re- read prior posts and read properly. It’s all there.

You’ve just written yet another damage control screed replete with more hypocritical moralisations and false narratives. You have written falsely - it’s a fact that I’ve simply highlighted and have clearly proven in detail already.

And it’s no worse than the myriad negs you have recently written unjustifiably (and falsely so) re myself - including your gratuitous and pointless retreading of prior disagreements that YOU clearly haven’t gotten over - quite desperate trying to flip your already identified issues back on to me - just “mirroring” for its own sake.

So, as a recipient of certainly no worse than what you have had to say re me - you’re somehow being “demeaned”?? Quite the self righteous one, aren’t we?

Re-read yourself also, it’s obvious that you pivot yourself on moralisations, pontifications and a dually applied sense of censorship - yet you will not be squelched no matter how far off base you yourself are or your obviously less than pure intents.

Living in a world of contradictions.

So, if I said X is an idiot, abusive, rude or what other neg I could muster - but at the same time note that X is a good poster all the same, I’ve allowed myself a technical loop hole as to not be deemed abusive myself?

LOL, don’t answer that - it’s rhetorical.

Also, ignore the significant point among many others I’ve made that you literally DID needlessly initiate with the first words on this, have input the most words on this and you are still endeavouring to hit the trifecta to have the last words on this also - LOL, any interaction with you has that fatal promise…..

Further to first, last and most words, there are a number of threads in which your engagements/disagreements with other posters have reflected this obsessive MO - dragging on, driven by you, not the other party with you rounding it off.

Again, see if you’re BIG enough (a cliched, term of challenge YOU have used toward multiple posters from your self assumed high ground) to move on from a discussion that YOU inappropriately started.

So far, you’re just reinforcing your own clear and away issues. Btw, no flip out here (another one of your false and derogatory labels) - LOL, hardly. I’m never so personally invested - it’s just pure analytics and due dissection.

 

Dude you are not specific recently: when you were I addressed you in great detail, & you avoided many points.
To the extent that even when I literally enumerated 20 of them you baselessly claimed the opposite of the Truth-that they lacked beef-& skipped over most of it.
Just like you spiritually bypass & ignore my repeatedly stated intent to salvage your position here when I was told that you were gone.
And asking others like J.T. what they think-which includes no dispute about my good intentions-just a correct assessment of how you would interpret & react to things.

Which like your dispute with me previously, & your incredibly demeaning, taunting, personal attacks on someone who got down in the mud too, but not nearly at the same length & viciousness; is the opposite of "big"-or decent.
It is also disingenuous to say you are not flipping out now-of course not, you will be removed-or exceedingly upset, personally invested, jockying for social position...
Yet projecting "desperation" upon me.

Even something as innocuous as saying you ha previously showed an "edge"-so mild, in some contexts a complement-or asking why you thought your shoulder structure was considered superior had you getting worked up, projecting insecurity upon me for merely asking...Waaay triggered over nothing burgers.

The dishonest part is that it is false or derogatory to point to how you were continually malignant.
I did not go into details when you were gone, nor about your Hatefest with someone else, so that is wrong...
But sparing you the icon,

This content is protected

someone not describing behavior but continually insulting, name calling, pretending the other guy is a "narcissistic sociopath"...Should not be conflated with being abusive.

Some of what you write is unclear, broad, vague...And intent can only be speculated at.
But you need an answer to what should not be rhetorical.
There is zero contradiction in saying & showing when someone is abusive, rude, personally denigrating, abusive: & saying that usually they are usually a good & valuable poster.
Also you must know I never called you names like "idiot".
Since you are intelligent you are either being disingenuous or out of avoidance lacking intellectual rigor here.

Such as I did

This content is protected

ignore your complaints that I brought things up.
I described the good things I said & ays I wanted to help; only you ignored things.
Sorry me commenting in a partial & restrained way in alluding to the crazy abuse-which you seem to have no remorse over, I mean even with the other guy...Is nothing the obvious, YOU should have at least laughed it off & said yeah I went nuts there, I will not be exceedingly mean & cruel again.

I also already indicated essentially that is seems

This content is protected

to make an issue of someone writing *more* than you do.
Especially when I am being diligent, need to repeat things you falsely say I skipped, & when I give mucho details deny & malign it even though you insist upon the substance you ignore.

Just as unhealthy is you trying to stigmatize me as wanting to have the last word.
No man: I have more to say, especially when you are posing challenges, getting facts wrong, ignoring details-or at least disingenuous.

You cannot show me where I was wrong about using "big enough": & must know it tended to be in the context of abusive or prejudiced folks. Nor that anyone actually even disagreed with me in those cases, smh.

Clear & "away" issues, "rounding it off-among many things we have to guess at your intended meaning.
I am "guilty" of going into mucho length sometimes. This is overwhelmingly in friendly discussions where nobody minds-sometimes comments are "liked", at worst it may be more than others care about, so what?
You are looking for any excuse, however tenuous & improbable, to vilify or pathologize.
Because you are the opposite of dispassionate & devoid of Ego.


YOU clearly feel entitled to the last word.
Notice I do not act in (un)kind.
Post if you like, but hopefully realize that you should not be trying to silence me, & it has as much chance to work as you using a rubber spoon to tunnel through to the other side of the earth.

 

Taking it to PM at this point might be wise.

 

Once you get to this size it completely ceases to matter LOL

 

I thought it already had been - from the AM to the PM that is, and around the clock again. Yes, I hear you.

Maybe take it to Tik Tok - 15 secs to 10 mins air time? I’ve got some killer dance moves to show off at the same time.….

 

Depends.

Data collected via self-reporting of post size tends to be exaggerated, self aggrandising and altogether highly inaccurate.

Best if the data is properly recorded and collated by independent and objective third parties - preferably wearing long white coats for an air of professionalism and credibility.

 

True and, once the ginormous, magic threshold is reached or surpassed, that’s a whole new “vocation” calling out altogether.

 

And further down the rabbit hole he goes…the prophecy re duration and yet more false content fulfilled - but NEVER mind that, eh? Each even longer post a “last word” check point and even deepening marker for how far down the hole you have fallen. When you hit rock bottom, you will no doubt pull out that little rubber spoon of yours and dig some more.

As I’ve ALREADY identified and proven, which YOU falsely deny, the ulterior motive behind poking your head in was to gratuitously unpack and resurface your own issues/grievances re prior disagreements long since left.

That is, of course, barring your OWN, intermediate and paranoiac INTRUSION on a dialogue I had with another poster which had NOTHING to do with you and was NOT about you - just as my leave of absence was NOT your concern or business. But poke your head in, you must, despite the trail of misconduct and errors behind you….. So now, you’re running at full steam on old stuff - the full REVEAL - completely UNMASKED - and replete with further “mirroring” - baseless, echoing of what I’ve already said and proven re yourself.

Very dishonest and very immoral. Shameless. And to compound all this, you are dishonest about the content and context of the prior discussions. Your shoulders, again? Really? Your own, self perpetuated address on that incriminates you. Disturbingly fabricated and unhealthy.

It was your own, obvious personal insecurity, not mine and you’ve written on it far more since than my own minimal address on the subject - is the real truth, as well evidenced by your OWN locked jaw on the subject somehow lost on you? LOL. And now you’re being “stigmatised as well as “demeaned” ?? my, my, - quite histrionic and overreactive terminologies - but usages that make clear you afford yourself far more acute sensitivities than the folks you’ve tried critique, profile and pontificate to.

YOUR 20 points? , lol, just read yourself. Was that part of your one reply that required tedious TWO post harmony - a length which you are fast approaching now (due to the disingenuous reasons I’ve already outlined and proven).

All salient points were addressed/answered - but you OMIT that prior to, during and after your deflective submission (what was that anyway , a one way questionnaire to offset your own unattended backlog, LOL) there were numerous proofs and questions you FAILED to accomodate. You were wrong on many facts, quotes and stats - completely confused, muddled and all at sea.

You even misquoted me MULTIPLE times - I replied you are WRONG, proved same and asked for proof of just one of those quotes - - a request you refused to fulfil - you literally stated that the burden was on me to locate YOUR mis-quote. DEEPLY flawed and illogical MO , as you are practicing now.

Intellectual rigour is a favoured term for you. LOL, well you certainly didn’t exercise same when you made ref. to and made false comment on the 15 1/2” stat I provided in my first post - the primary reason I replied. As such, looking deeper into your post it was also found that you were merely picking comments from another forum (sans source evidence) and that only 1 poster, NOT multiple as you claimed, made ref to reading an 81” reach for Liston.

Now we might guess that you will go off on one of your wild and deflective tangents stating you acknowledged the errors - but you shouldn’t have wasted my time in the first place having to CORRECT you yet again and it is just one example of many where you’ve expressed yourself with mucho conviction - spying to correct at the seeming expense of another poster - ONLY for you to be found wrong. It really doesn’t fit in with your “preferred”meticulous framing of yourself.

So, YOU SHOULD lose the moralisations and pontifications - you are in NO WAY a shining example of that which you which you CHRONICALLY try to preach to all and sundry in clear contradiction of your own terms, sentiments and ironically fragile ego -

The type of ego that you claim impairs others but which is in fact the VERY ego you possess that drives you to make further pointless, never ending submissions in an attempt to save face.

 

Size in boxing or posts is an advantage if it is substantive, relevant & useful in supporting an objective, obviously just being really fat or throwing punches or word soups out any old way or intent & the effevt being unrecognizable is a disadvantage.

So ~ 9 out of 10 folks here agree Rahman has the size advantage.
Also that it is only at all significant in the amount of muscle the former powerlifter developed.

Whether that extra bulk & strength would help him in the ring we are not sure of.
I believe most would say if Rahman had 20 or so less lbs. of muscle, he likely would not have been quite as good as he was.

While some look at flaws & underrate guys, not realizing that just adding total skills does not equal results-especially at HW, power & punch resistance tends to mean more.
At his best he was still World Class.

However Liston was much better in terms of overall success.
Also most all of us think that even if his era was not as good overall due largely to the average size being...not as large...

Liston was still better in absolute terms.
So like prime Tyson against all but a very few bigger men...
Size would not give Rahman much added value against Liston.

One thing we really do not know is how well Liston would do against big powerful modern guys.
Most he fought were smaller than him.
However given his Top Rank power, chin, very long arms, superb jab...
I think he would more often tend to be a Giant Killer.

While guys like Dempsey & Marciano would not have enough size-& not quite as much power...
To beat most of the best fighters Liston would defeat!

 

You hypocritically critiqued the length of my posts while writing a very long one.
Which would be fine if it was not mostly repetitious, using my own language & copying what I said about you.
You are

This content is protected

about getting the last word-because only you keep accusing me of this or complain about getting answers to accusations; for a while now I have silently predicted that when you discover you are unable to be nasty yet expect me to keep quiescent-you will in frustration revert to an absurd claim amounting to you are taking the high road by finally stopping.
Only one person might be deluded anough to believe this reversal of reality-yourself.
Since you do not attend to many details-even really respectful questions like what you meant by specific phrases-I'll see if you can absorb bullet points.

1) You repeat exactly what I kept saying about your own egoism & performative arts/trying to save face. Insecurity, unhealthy" literally just

This content is protected

-but what I provided examples about. Without evidence.

2) It is mean to never acknowledge good intentions, & like you wanting to preserve your place here-nobody else doubts these things
It is also petty to complain or say it is "spying" to comment on a post & when I acknowledge a trivial error, your correction like 1 guy said the same 81" claim twice...Complain & absurdly claim my dry recitation of facts was at anyone's "expense".
3) I have never seen you admit *any* errors. Whether small facts, overall arguments, or regretting getting incredibly abusive & cruel-ironically at much greater length than the other bomb thrower-is a matter of basic maturity & decency.
4) I was wrong that it was hard to find the 15.5" listing. I did check many sources. But it seems only visible in the TOTP for one fight. We both agree that it is almost certainly overstated-but what is salient is that you have nothing to be upset about here-no meaningful difference, & I handled things ethically.
5) You again make mistaken, general comments about me being wrong-& it is senseless to claim this when you ignored so much of my answers-& when I asked you to retrieve a single statement you were describing-after many unkind complaints about showing me what you meant, when I tried to address the matter you had stopped responding.
6) Literally

This content is protected

sees me having the low motivations you fantasize I show.
I could not be more painstaking & sincere, yet you may sadly believe I am deflecting or not attending things.
You are really unable to be objective & see who your are talking with & what is being said.
You sound really triggered & hyperactive Pugguy. Again ask others if they agree.
7) I guarantee you people can sometimes not comprehend what you are saying when you get so overheated-you need a proofreader, some words are missing or misused.
When you fail to actually tell me why you got upset about something as harmless & friendly as asking why a/your shoulder structure is preferred & gratuitously accuse me of being insecure instead of answering-I gotta assume you are projecting.
And although in this case your words or grammar was not twisted, *nobody" can decipher what you possibly meant by me having a "locked jaw" there. It also contradicts your complaint about me mentioning it.
8) You have failed to show any examples of my moralizing to others that were wrong-factually or morally.
If I object to vicious personal attacks, racist statements or "homo" hatred-well we all should do so to oppose bullying, preserve comfort & stop good folks from turning away in disgust-as has say a friend of mine, an award winning journalist whose website I posted on longer than my decade here, about many subjects, especially boxing.

9) In absolutely did not unpack or air a bunch of grievances-I had so many I could have broached, but said nothing about the details of our arguments, did not make my case-nor reference any of the valid objections to your increasingly demeaning & unhinged, deterioration of civility in our exchanges.
Me regretting the obvious, the highly toxic & hateful derision, yet recognizing your usual virtues & repeatedly agitating for you remaining was the opposite of delving into & enumerating the wrongs you did me.

10) Just the fact that only I ever grant you good intentions, good postings, want to help your situation...
And you never can do the same, nor ever admit you were wrong, nor pick up

This content is protected

Should show you that like with the continued spewing of hate & personal attacks that got you banned...
That you are unable to be rational, objective or fair when you get (easily & unnecessarily) threatened.