Didn’t really know the backstory to this fight until I read it on boxrec: https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jose_Luis_Ramirez_vs._Pernell_Whitaker_(1st_meeting) It certainly sounds suspect, particularly given Sulaiman’s actions. But was the fight result actually fixed? I’ve seen varying scorecards for this fight and posters I really respect, like @scartissue, had this as a very close fight. What are your thoughts?
I've seen a few people had this close even some having it for Ramirez, i'm not gonna lie that always leaves me a bit baffled. But i've seen a few respected posters have it that way so maybe i'm missing something, but i always thought it was a comfortable 8-4 decision for Whitaker despite Whitaker being a bit negative. As for your question as @JohnThomas1 already pointed out it certainly wouldn't surprise me considering who's involved.
Absolutely. Bit of a thing about perception of a fight and actual understanding of what's going on. Pete was passive and Ramirez brought the fight but Pete made him miss and wasn't overly troubled. Had he been more aggressive during the fight, then people would have cried robbery. I can't see how Ramirez didn't lose.
I need to look at this fight again. I remember thinking Pernell won but it was closer than a lot of people made it out and it darned sure wasn’t anything close to a shutout. Just as Ramirez might not have “troubled” Whitaker too much, Pernell likewise didn’t “trouble” Ramirez much either. Pernell was passive at times and Ramirez was able to parry and slip his jab a lot so he’s making Pete miss too.
True. It's just that Pete was clearly superior so you it looks overly passive. One of the things about fighters of that talent. When they don't dominate and the other fighter is pressing, it makes the fight look closer than what it was/should be.
That's fair enough - I do think had Pete decided to step it up, he wins cleanly. It wasn't a shutout but despite what I call a silent agreement (when two fighters feel each other out and kind of fall into not pushing too hard for fear/concern/cautiousness of getting countered or pushed beyond their stamina/capability) I still felt Pete to be the better fighter.
I don't recall him breaking his hand but if so, full ratings. A bit like Floyd with the injured shoulder Vs JLC. Pete deffo showed in the rematch that he was on another level. I haven't watched Pernell in years - think I need to go back and study him again.
OK, so I had to go back and score this. Will post full card and details in the ‘What Fights Did You Watch Today’ sticky thread, but to my surprise I ended up with Ramirez winning 115-114. I had one round even and three or four that were close enough that could have swung either way. If is not, IMO, a robbery. Pernell left too much on the table that he probably could have won it convincingly but instead had huge lulls where he did little or nothing. General observations: Whitaker looked good early but then started basically running to the point that he many times turned his back on JLR and would circle the ring without throwing a punch or maybe a couple of jabs that missed and then tied Ramirez up … and also a lot of other stuff that probably turned off the judges (grabbed Ramirez around the knees once, some of his usual dipping and ducking where his head is way down .. and then immediately from that into a clinch). I also thought — and an HD version might change my mind on this — that for a good portion of the fight Pernell’s jab just didn’t land. Ramirez parried it or it went right over his shoulder. And sometimes when it did land it was a touch more than a punch. I’ll add if you watch this and think Pernell won, you pretty much have to think Ray Leonard beat Marvin Hagler because if you think what Ray was doing was running, well, Sweat Pea brought his track shoes. And turning his back to avoid exchanges is never a good look. This isn’t a mature Whitaker who has learned to stay in the pocket and sit down on his punches (he did a little, but not much). I think he just let it get away from him, but I wouldn’t argue with a two-point verdict in Pernell’s favor. As noted, some very close rounds.
I think Whitaker left the door open a little bit. I had him winning but closer than many had it. If I recall correctly SweetPea clowned a little too much.
I still find it hard to think of certain fighter s as no longer with us. Sweet pea is one, along with Camacho and Hagler.
1 Whitaker 2 Whitaker 3 Ramirez 4 Whitaker 5 Whitaker 6 Ramirez 7 Ramirez 8 Ramirez 9 Whitaker 10 Whitaker 11 Whitaker 12 Whitaker 116-112 Whitaker
