Rank Liston,Bowe and Frazier on skill alone

He beat one of the greatest HWs ever. Tell me when did Liston do that?

 

Who was significantly smaller than him and didn't try to outbox him, but instead fought like a fool trying to prove he's the bigger man. Let's not act like Holyfield didn't beat him either.

If you exclude size, then two wins over peak Patterson are outstanding.

 

Frazier was one dimensional but his style was complex. Even more complex than Bowe's

 

Wait now hold on a minute. Are you suggesting that Liston didn't bully patterson with his size and strength before KOing him ? Liston had almost 25 pounds over Patterson in the first fight and still had 20 pounds on him in the second and manhandled and beat patterson in the clinches.

 

I don't, are you suggesting that Bowe didn't use his size and strength to beat Holyfield?

 

No, he did but not as much as liston did, what Bowe and Holyfield mainly did was exchange in the pocket.

 

So neither fighter used their skills to beat their best opponents, we got it. The argument used by Kamikaze was that Liston never beat his equal in size and skills. Did Bowe ever fought someone his size and skills? Holyfield doesn't match these criteria.

 

I never said that. But I'd say Biggs might match that criteria, had a good jab, impressive lateral movement and was won Olympic gold but at that point he was shot so you do have a point.

 

Biggs certainly wasn't on Bowe level, even I don't rank Bowe as low. He was a skilled fighter who got burned out quickly. As you said, he was done at this point.

I wouldn't call this version of Biggs better than Cleveland Williams.

 

No but I'd say Andrew Golota was. Imo he was more skilled than Cleveland Williams and practically matched Bowe for size at 6'4, 240 pounds. He was a nutcase but a good boxer and unfortunately got robbed against Chris Byrd and John Ruiz making his only noteworthy win being Danell Nicholson. He beat the hell out of Bowe in the first fight but Bowe came in 15 pounds overweight. The second fight was competitive until Bowe caught Golota and proceeded to pound him into the canvas. Bowe was winning the fight and was ahead on the scorecards with the knockdowns until Golota fouled him numerous times. Golota was getting his ass whooped and mentally caved and cheated his way out the fight to a disqualification so in my eyes Bowe won that rematch regardless of what people say. Golota wanted out

Not to say Liston never beat skilled guys his size, he did. He was a great fighter

 

Yeah i know, i was saying i think "I" would have Frazier #2 aka i'm not completely and utterly over the hump on it. Me, myself and Irene

 

Golota maybe? And we all know what happened there.

 

I don't share your entusiasm about Gołota.

 

Bowe was down on the cards in fight two, Markus.

Both men went down, Bowe twice, I believe. But Golota also had the two point deductions. But he just plain won more rounds. Riddick probably only won two rounds. When you win that few rounds and go down twice, it leaves too big a gap on the cards even if your opponent has also been down and had a couple of points taken off.

There was recently a thread about the most brutal beating in a heavyweight fight and this got a mention. I don't think it was any beat down Riddick was giving Golota that people were getting squeamish about.

 

Learn to read.

Bowe was ahead in round 4 due to the knockdowns, the points deducted from Golota and arguably outboxed Golota in round 3. That was until Golota started punching him in the balls numerous times. Which is what i said, i said Bowe was ahead until he started getting fouled and those shots can energy out of you, especially shots from a 240 pound Super heavyweight, regardless of the cup. Golota was getting his ass whooped in round 4 and resorted to disgracefully lowblowing Bowe.