Rank the eight heavyweight champions

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 25, 2021.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ah, I see. Yeah, there might have been a point after Corbett won the title, and Jackson took a nosedive, where Corbett was #1 in the world.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But listen, I want to be clear here, Corbett isn't getting nearly enough credit for what he did with Jackson in this thread.

    Jackson was Corbett's tenth professional fight. Tenth. Jackson was one of the literal best fighters in history up until that point. I forget how many fights Jackson had and a lot of them were shorter distance, but he was an absolute veteran of the ring at somewhere in the region of sixty fights, as technically complete as anyone had ever been at that size.

    Corbett's "seasoning" consisted of a twenty-five round victory over an inexperienced Choynski, a six round fight with an undertrained Jake Kilrain and a bizarre four round "fight" with McCafferey.

    Perhaps because he was such an unpleasant human being, Corbett seems undernourished for going sixty rounds in these circumstances - and being the man demanding the fight continue. It was Jackson's team that pushed for a stoppage draw.

    It was absolutely heroic.
     
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  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    There's also the Classic forum answer to this:

    "Ahhh, but I rate Jackson higher head to head! Their actual result was a fluke! My mental scenario of how it should have gone is a fairer test, which I shall unveil to you in a series of black and white Powerpoint videos with piano music."
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think that this is actually not that unreasonable tbh. I know that Pollack feels that it was far and away Jackson who was the more complete technician. But in the light of my last post I can only insist that it was Corbett who benefited from their real life contest and Jackson who was hurt by it. One was up, and there's only one way to go after that, one was sumitting.

    I think Corbett would have kicked Jackson's ass in a rematch.

    But, that said, at his very best, it's fair to say Jackson was the better man, although this is not proven. There was definitely something very, very special about him and his story may be the saddest in all of boxing, which is ****ing saying something.
     
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  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Yeah, IIRC about a 10 year pro career is when punch resistance starts dropping precipitously among MMA fighters. Dunno if anyone looked into it with boxers, but I suspect it's similar.

    By "prime," I was referring to a period where the fighter might not be at his absolute best anymore, but he's still good enough that his results give you a very strong indication of how his absolute best incarnation would perform in the same fight. Which can be a much longer period.

    Patterson's career from Liston 1 for a while, Foreman against Young, later-but-pre-Holmes Norton...the borderline case being FOTC Ali. These guys weren't at their absolute best anymore, but they were good enough that I don't think you'd see much change in their performances if you tagged in the peak version.

    Considering that Corbett didn't seem to have accumulated much damage, I find it plausible that he was in that stage of his career when Fitz beat him.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I understand, but a) have now lost all interest and b) flat out disagree that a fighter who is not training and fighting can be prime. I just don't see it, at all, at any level.

    Either I am fundamentally wrong about boxing or Corbett couldn't possibly be prime for Fitz. Whichever it is I definitely don't want to talk about it any more :lol:
     
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  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thank you for the interesting discussion, you made me reconsider some of my opinions about Corbett. I still wouldn't agree with the part I quoted, but we don't have to agree on everything ;)
     
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Very true, and the place would be awful if we all did.

    Plus, calling head-to-head prime-for-prime from 140 years ago is a total crapshoot anyway.
     
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  9. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    - 3 posters have an argument about which 19th century fighter is better

    - Argument centers around a 60+ round draw that was stopped because the fight didn't go anywhere.

    - Argument stops when it doesn’t go anywhere

    :yikes:

    I've been part of a living history experiment.
     
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    On paper his record is off the scale.

    He just dominated everybody for the better part of a decade.

    Yes a lot of this was probably down to the chaotic transitional nature of the era, but if you give him the benefit of the doubt on that, then he is probably a top five all time heavyweight.

    It is probably in the spirit of this thread to give him the benefit of that doubt.

    However, when I compose an all time heavyweight list, I usually just don't rank him.
     
  11. michael mullen

    michael mullen Active Member Full Member

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    I like your list a lot Bob, except I'm always tempted to rank Tunney first. Maybe it isn't the correct thing to do...but there's always the question..."what to do with Tunney?"
     
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  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Johnson
    Dempsey
    Fitzsimmons
    Jeffries/Tunney tie
    Corbett
    Sullivan
    Willard
     
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