Rank them 1-4 on ability: Donaire, Martinez, Bradley, Ward

horst · Mar 21, 2012

purephase said: ↑

That's swell and all but it's still in no way the strongest top 10 in a long while.

Mayweather, Marquez, and Pacquiao have been there pretty consistently for the better part of the past decade, so they're merely still being at the top now, when it's clear that all 3 have declined somewhat, doesn't really mean much.

Beyond that, the presence of Vitali could be taken as much as a negative as a positive, as the fact that he's ranked in the top 10 given his level of competition could be seen as an indictment of the rest of the boxing world.

Your description of Ward is mighty generous to say the least.

Martinez and Donaire's last four fights have produced nothing but disappointment in the eyes of many given their high positions in the rankings, Bradley's still in the top 10 on inertia alone since he has one good win in the past two years (and of course briefly lost his position last year in the magazine's 140 rankings without being punished on the P4P list), and Gamboa, despite being in my opinion the best feather in the world, does not have the resume that makes one think he's a clear top 10 fighter.

I don't mean to be trashing these guys at all, but the idea that this constitutes some kind of golden age is a bit bizarre to me. Look at the rankings from 4 years ago, for instance:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Manny Pacquiao

Juan Manuel Marquez

Bernard Hopkins

Joe Calzaghe

Israel Vazquez

Miguel Angel Cotto

Ricky Hatton

Ronald (Winky) Wright

Rafael Marquez

You have Hopkins in addition to the 3 ATGs on today's list plus Calzaghe and Wright, two of the best handfuls of guys in their respective modern divisions (and please, let's not turn this into a Joe debate). Does the presence of Hatton really make 2008's look so much worse than 2012's?
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I think the current top 10 is stronger than that top 10, clearly. You're fixating on the names too much. Yes Hopkins was in there, but he was about 7 years past his best. Vazquez was never a great fighter, neither was Hatton, and both Rafa Marquez and especially Winky had seen their best days depart. You picked out an ageing year-end group for its star power, but it doesn't match up to a group with so many fighters in their prime or with a lot of potential to become HOF fighters. Look how quickly all those guys fell away. This is a top 10 with almost every guy in it performing at a very high level right now, and will continue to do so for years.

horst · Mar 21, 2012

purephase said: ↑

That's swell and all but it's still in no way the strongest top 10 in a long while.

Mayweather, Marquez, and Pacquiao have been there pretty consistently for the better part of the past decade, so they're merely still being at the top now, when it's clear that all 3 have declined somewhat, doesn't really mean much.

Beyond that, the presence of Vitali could be taken as much as a negative as a positive, as the fact that he's ranked in the top 10 given his level of competition could be seen as an indictment of the rest of the boxing world.

Your description of Ward is mighty generous to say the least.

Martinez and Donaire's last four fights have produced nothing but disappointment in the eyes of many given their high positions in the rankings, Bradley's still in the top 10 on inertia alone since he has one good win in the past two years (and of course briefly lost his position last year in the magazine's 140 rankings without being punished on the P4P list), and Gamboa, despite being in my opinion the best feather in the world, does not have the resume that makes one think he's a clear top 10 fighter.

I don't mean to be trashing these guys at all, but the idea that this constitutes some kind of golden age is a bit bizarre to me. Look at the rankings from 4 years ago, for instance:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Manny Pacquiao

Juan Manuel Marquez

Bernard Hopkins

Joe Calzaghe

Israel Vazquez

Miguel Angel Cotto

Ricky Hatton

Ronald (Winky) Wright

Rafael Marquez

You have Hopkins in addition to the 3 ATGs on today's list plus Calzaghe and Wright, two of the best handfuls of guys in their respective modern divisions (and please, let's not turn this into a Joe debate). Does the presence of Hatton really make 2008's look so much worse than 2012's?
Click to expand...

PS: Anyway, my point wasn't that this was some golden generation to match the class of '82, I have given you the wrong impression. The point was more that over the last couple of years, The Ring have made some bizarre inclusions in the top 10 like Celestino Caballero and Arthur Abraham. Just now, they seem to have weeded out these oddball picks from near the #10 spot, replaced them with dominant champions like the Klits, and now the top 10 is much more solid than it has been for a while. :good

purephase · Mar 21, 2012

Popkins said: ↑

I think the current top 10 is stronger than that top 10, clearly. You're fixating on the names too much. Yes Hopkins was in there, but he was about 7 years past his best. Vazquez was never a great fighter, neither was Hatton, and both Rafa Marquez and especially Winky had seen their best days depart. You picked out an ageing year-end group for its star power, but it doesn't match up to a group with so many fighters in their prime or with a lot of potential to become HOF fighters. Look how quickly all those guys fell away. This is a top 10 with almost every guy in it performing at a very high level right now, and will continue to do so for years.
Click to expand...

It's true that it's unfair to compare the two lists on the basis of names alone, but it's likewise problematic to praise the strength of the current list based on projections of what the younger guys are likely to accomplish in the future. Guys on this list could just as easily fall away as those from previous years did.

Popkins said: ↑

PS: Anyway, my point wasn't that this was some golden generation to match the class of '82, I have given you the wrong impression. The point was more that over the last couple of years, The Ring have made some bizarre inclusions in the top 10 like Celestino Caballero and Arthur Abraham. Just now, they seem to have weeded out these oddball picks from near the #10 spot, replaced them with dominant champions like the Klits, and now the top 10 is much more solid than it has been for a while. :good
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I do have to say it's a bit odd that the P4P list looks somewhat better at the moment since The Ring's divisional rankings are about as bad as I've ever seen them...

PIPO23 · Mar 21, 2012

Penalosa fought Gonzales, De leon and Juan ma lopez and Gerry was an old man.So I think Nonito fighting Mijares is kind of weak, seriously, does he consider himself a champion and pound for pound? GTFO! Pacquiao fought the whose who in Boxing.Marquez, Barrera, Morales, Rito and Cotto.Again Nonito fighting Mijares is kind of gay.

But If he is looking at being protecting his stock and he does have a lot to lose then that would be understandable.I don't think he is scared.Maybe he's really chasing Gamboa who is way more dangerous than any one Manny and Penalosa fought.Because the speed and power is unbelievable.

Royal-T-Bag · Mar 21, 2012

as most knowledgeable folks have already stated this is pretty easy to rank in terms of ability....

1. Ward- clear cut
2. Donaire
3. Martinez
4. Bradley

escastro1 · Mar 21, 2012

Ward
Donaire
Martinez
Bradley

JMP · Mar 21, 2012

Andre Ward
Nonito Donaire
Timothy Bradley
Sergio Martinez

Martinez has done everything but impress me lately.

RafaelGonzal · Mar 21, 2012

Martinez
Ward
Donaire
Bradley

The Wanderer · Mar 21, 2012

Ward
Donaire
Martinez
Bradley

In terms of athletic ability, MArtinez is probably tops, but I think he uses that athleticism to cover certain holes in his boxing game. So on boxing ability, this would be my current ranking, although there's very little separating 2-4.

Ward is a notch above the others, at least from what we've seen so far.

aj415 · Mar 21, 2012

1. Ward
2. Donaire
3. Martinez
4. Head Monster

JASPER · Mar 21, 2012

Popkins said: ↑

PS: Anyway, my point wasn't that this was some golden generation to match the class of '82, I have given you the wrong impression. The point was more that over the last couple of years, The Ring have made some bizarre inclusions in the top 10 like Celestino Caballero and Arthur Abraham. Just now, they seem to have weeded out these oddball picks from near the #10 spot, replaced them with dominant champions like the Klits, and now the top 10 is much more solid than it has been for a while. :good
Click to expand...

If that is your top ten then the one 4 years ago wins it going away! However, I think you top ten is **** so it is actually a lot closer:bart

Farmboxer · Mar 21, 2012

Martinez
Donaire
Bradley
Ward

madkillaz692000 · Mar 22, 2012

Donaire
Ward
Martinez

Bradley

horst · Mar 22, 2012

JASPER said: ↑

If that is your top ten then the one 4 years ago wins it going away! However, I think you top ten is **** so it is actually a lot closer:bart
Click to expand...

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Rank them 1-4 on ability: Donaire, Martinez, Bradley, Ward

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