Rank these fighters in order - Arguello, Lewis, Hearns, DLH.

I agree with you there.

Yes, but that isn't very impressive considering the general standard of his opposition outwith those two opponents.

Erm...

Floyd did not win the first Castillo fight though.

Always ignored? It's mentioned every time the first fight is without fail. It's never ignored. That fight is one I would bring up whenever discussing Floyd's apparent greatness. Yes, he did win the decision justly that time. But considering the doubts over the score and his own quality following the first fight, I feel as if an all-time elite fighter could've put Castillo to the sword in a more emphatic way. Floyd outboxed him on the move to a a relatively comfortable decision in a dull fight. He couldn't at the second attempt produce a career-best virtuoso Gatti-like performance against a fighter of the standard of Castillo, who was a step above Gatti but a step below one of the very best of his era. The best fighters that Whitaker fought before he was too far past his prime to produce the goods were Nelson and Chavez - and he produced technical masterclasses and near shut-outs. And even then, Nelson '90 and Chavez '93 were better fighters than '02 Castillo and '07 De La Hoya.

Mayweather never fought the best of his era, and never really produced when he fought the best he did fight. Great skills? Looked like it. Prove those skills emphatically and beyond doubt in a way that history will remember? Nope.

Perhaps. Though I always notice that Floyd's performance has become a retrospective masterclass. That was a very close fight, no matter how you score it. I haven't bothered watching it in ages because it's not a favourite of mine by a long shot, but I can see why a Mayweather UD could've been given. Alternatively, I could easily see why someone would give a draw. It was one of Floyd's worst ever performances, and it came in his biggest fight. For the first half of the fight, he seemed inhibited by Oscar's jab and physical presence - and while Floyd was near-prime, Oscar was years into his decline. This was a ghost of peak Oscar. And when that ghost gassed, Floyd eventually came to life. Again, not with an emphatic and impressive vintage performance like Jones gave us against Toney or Hopkins produced against Trinidad, but a lethargic showing which was the absolute minimum required to scrape through.

How on earth can you say that the Taylor fight didn't expose Chavez's limitations?? It's irrelevant whether anyone replicated it (which you acknowledge did happen, the next time Chavez fought anyone with Taylor's main attributes), people thought the 67-0 (I think he was around that or something like that when he fought Taylor) Chavez was unbeatable, maybe the number 1 in the world, and Meldrick Taylor completely outboxed him in a way that most thought impossible. Whether anyone else managed to do so in a 3 and a half year window means nothing, Taylor did it. Then Whitaker did it. I don't recall Whitaker or Jones being comprehensively outboxed, outfought and outclassed for the full 12 rounds when in their prime. And they fought Meldrick Taylor calibre opponents. The Taylor fight proved that Chavez was not the h2h monster you think he was.

We will have to it seems. But I can produce a bulletproof argument for 10 men who deserve to be ranked over Chavez from all of history, I can produce a bulletproof argument for 10 men from the televised era who deserve to be ranked over Chavez, and I can provide a very formidable argument for why Chavez should not be in a p4p top 10. You can't do any of these things. All you do is say it's ignorant and moronic to rule him out of a top 10, and point to a notoriously well-fattened zero.

You can do whatever you want in your personal favourite fighters list, whether you masquerade it as a p4p list or not!


PS: I'm thinking a Saddler or Chavez poll and thread might be good, you think? It seems natural to me that Saddler should be a bit higher, but your certainty that Chavez was the greater has me thinking about what the Classic consensus is on the subject?

 

I was not referring to h2h between Saddler and Chavez obviously, I was referring to p4p greatness. I see you have started a thread, I'll check it out now :good

 

Same for me

 

to be fair Mayweather was about 15-20lbs past his best weights SFW and LW so it canbe argued he had as much disadvantage as oscar.

great minds think alike

 

Hearns
Arguello
Lewis
DLH

All great fighters, that you gotta love

 

Hearns
Delahoya
Arguello











Lewis

I think the first 3 are all Very close i wouldnt argue to much about how you arranged them..............However Lewis is far below the other 3.

 

Except Lewis beat everyone including the best 3 he faced, all the others lost comprehensively against the best men they faced

 

He was also KTFOD against fighters that the other 3 would have never lost to much less get kod by(in a pfp sense), I can see if it were when Lewis was old or green but he was in his prime.

 

Hearns,Arguello,Delahoya,Lewis I agreed with your list.

 

1. Arugello
2. Hearns
3. Lewis
4. De La Hoya

Both Lewis and DLH are in the bottom of my personal top 100 list, perhaps even lower for DLH...

 

Tyson and Holy were past it!! The cut Vitali had was bad enough to stop it but id have to say i think Vitali was doing well.

The Mercer fight could have gone either way. The Ruddock Ko was very impressive though.

 

Hearns 20 to 25 Atg
Delahoya and Arguello no lower than 30

Lewis around 70

 

A little different though. Lewis was bigger than the best guys he fought. If he were the same size I am not sure what the results would have been, as far as Tyson and Holyfields. And Vitali you are probably thinking was the 3rd, but Lewis was more experienced at that point. I like Lennox, but against the fighters of the Arguello and Hearns and Oscar level I am not sure he deserves to be at that top. But Lennox Lewis was a great fighter. His right hand was one of the best punches in heavyweight history.

 

1. arguello 2.tommy 3. oscar aside from being great fighter he brought casual fan back realy transindent fighter 4. lewis