Rank these guys in terms of ability... HOPKINS, DLH, LOPEZ, MARQUEZ ?

Marquez at Featherweight was very good. He was much more defensive than he is now as he says he had to adjust his fighting style to become more 'exciting'.

I thought that fight showed his versatility also

 

Throughout the years prime and non-prime, Hopkins had to many stretches during his fights of inactivity......

Hopkins just did'nt keep a high enough workrate, which is the reason he is'nt a PPV type of fighter....

A great fighter, but against top notch competition, too much defense, and not enough offense.
Even today, he's able to dominate sound basic fighters like Pavlik who dont have alot of dimension to them.......but my feeling is that Hopkins even in his prime would have trouble with quicker and faster fighters.....example, Roy Jones Jr., Jermain Taylor, and most recently Joe Calzaghe.
......in his defensive posturing style, he'd have trouble with all those even at his absolute best.


My ranking at the moment is Lopez, JMM, Hopkins......with DLH imo not even in the same boat with the other three.



I dont make my estimations on accomplishment, because clearly not every fighter get the same opportunities.

 

Hopkins is a far better balanced fighter than Chavez ever dreamed of being. You seem always come to this crazy conclusion that defensive specialists can't have effective offense as well. Whitaker, and now Hopkins.

 

I disagree. I think by the time of the De La Hoya fight in '04, Hopkins was visibly declined from the 97-01 period. Considering Taylor's performances against the version of Hopkins he fought, considering his performances over the last 5 or so years, and thinking how he would match up with the very best version of Hopkins, I can conceive of no result other than a resounding points win or late stoppage for B-Hop.

 

Nah.

 

Hopkins started slowly against Trinidad because he was very wary of being caught by a proven KO puncher. He would not be so wary against Taylor. On his best night, Hopkins stamps his authority and imposes his superior skill early. Nay sweat.

 

Debatable. Either man could be ranked over the other IMO. I would probably give the edge to Chavez (today), but this is not Chavez and William Joppy we are talking about here, these two clearly belong in the same 'tier' or on the same level.

 

DLH is getting massively underrated here.

I'd like to see the day a prime DLH loses to a Freddie Norwood level fighter, or has trouble landing a punch on a guy as basic as Chris John. Heck, even DLH would outclass an old Barrera, which JMM wasn't able to do (please don't tell me that that old Barrera was still as good as the Whitaker that DLH fought - sorry, he wasn't).

Lopez looked able fighting trash so who knows there.

Hopkins again spent his prime fighting trash so who knows. I definitely don't think he has more ability than DLH, even though through dedication he has prolonged his prime and stayed at a high level. Hopkins at his best to me is not better than DLH at his best.

 

That's fair enough but at the same time, what reason do you have for putting Lopez first when he didn't face anything near the competition of the others to test his ability? DLH for instance, wasn't as dominant or classy looking against the fighters he was facing, but look at how he was mowing down the average guys he fought at lightweight like he was a machine. Even the comp there shits all over Lopez's competition, so how can you really say DLH is not in the same boat as Lopez? When facing fighters better than Lopez was, DLH was smashing them to smithereens. Of course when he stepped up and faced p4p rated guys, he struggled, but hey, Lopez never did.

 

Lopez dominated both weight classes he won titles in.
He dominated those fighters like a man facing a boy.

Its a pity that Lopez never went up to 108 when Humberto Gonzalez and Michael Carbajal were ruling there......
.....but thats just the story of the minumum weight classes below featherweight.....the fighters today dont get paid there, but in Lopez day it was much worse.
There was'nt any monetary incentive for any of the lower weight class fighters to move up to face what was percieved as more dangerous competition.
Thats just how it was played in those days....


......but all you really have to do is watch Lopez perform to know you cant deny his greatness.
He was a complete fighter.....textbook in the way he threw his punches.

What were Lopez' weaknesses? ....because I dont know what the hell they were......

A great boxer with speed, punching power in either hand, sound defense, great sense of distance, and ring generalship extroardinaire.........

All I know that I have'nt seen many fighters in my lifetime with that type of skill level.

Saman Sorjatorung is the fighter that ended 29 year old Humberto Gonzalez" career by stopping him in 7 rounds.....

Finito Lopez destroyed the same Sorjatorung in two rounds!

A 32 year old 108 pounder is the equivalent to a 42 year old Heavyweight......thats how old Lopez was when he faced and beat Rosendo Alvarez who in his own right was a great fighter.......
.....if there was ever a doubt of his greatness....those two examples right there are proof enough for me of Lopez' greatness.



.....and Scientist, you're simply overrating DLH, and I think most of us here know why.

To me DLH dominated smaller and 2nd tier fighters at lightweight.......he did that through sheer speed and size......
His boxing skills are overrated imo. When it came time to put those skills to the test against fighters more to his level and size, I was'nt seeing a fighter who's light was shining bright.
At least thats the way I viewed it.

 

:good:good:good

DLH was a beast, his resume is outstanding, fought heaps of P4P rated guys and a couple of P4P number 1's, fought the best in a few diferent weight divisons and was never out classed (apart from Pac).

At WW he fought Sweet Pea, Ike, Tito and SSM in all close bouts. Did the other four all fight each other? (apart from Tito in with a worse version of Sweet pea). If they did, someone would have to have a loss next to their name, so would it be close or disputed like DLH? or would someone end up getting outclassed?.

If every other fighter did the same then they would all have alot more loses. IMO DLH is one of the best fighters of recent years, I am sure that in the future peoples opinions will change.

 

I agree with Sweet_Scientist on De La Hoya. He was fantastic against the likes of Reulas, Leija, past prime Chavez, Hernandez, Gonzales, etc, and clearly got the better of a prime, ATG opponent in Trinidad, something Lopez and Marquez never did.

My list:
Hopkins
De La Hoya
Marquez
Lopez

I do think that there is a clear gap between Hopkins and the other 3 though, and I wouldn't have a problem with Lopez over Marquez.

 

More like a man facing sub-par opposition.

And what exactly did DLH do at 135 and 140?

I'm not interested in slagging Lopez off for not moving up in weight, but come on, there wouldn't have been monetary incentive to move up and fight Carbajal and Gonzalez? I don't buy that.

Lopez looked fairly complete, but I think there are areas where he was merely good and not great. Those are the areas that are exploitable. He does not have great speed, nor great defense, and I'm not sure he faced too many guys with great power and strength to know if he could be outmuscled or stung with heavy shots. The extent of his recuperative powers are not totally determined either. In facing Alvarez he did face someone big and strong and hard hitting but even Alvarez was not great in those areas, and by and large he is not what I would call anything more than a very good fighter.

True enough, but Humberto looked pretty shite by his standards against Saman and was still getting the better of Saman before he dropped the bomb.

Lopez was past his prime when he faced Alvarez, but he still had a bit left. He was not a shadow of his former self or anything. And for what it's worth, I thought Lopez lost the first fight and I think the second was close enough to call a draw, though Lopez had more of the clear rounds.

As I said above, I disagree that Alvarez was a great fighter. Very good one though. And Lopez sure showed mettle in hanging in there with the bigger, harder hitter and stronger fighter.

The 'second tier' lightweights DLH dominated were still on the whole much better than the top tier guys that Lopez dominated in his weight classes and I've seen more than 20 Lopez fights so I feel confident in saying that.

Lopez threw straighter, more compact punches, but DLH was quicker, threw combinations better, had the better jab and probably defense too though it's hard to tell when Lopez wasn't facing the offensive arsenal DLH was.

DLH struggled not when he faced guys his own size but when he faced the p4p best in the sport. Something Lopez never came close to doing.