Rank these ten fighters (1-10) as you believe them to fall all time.

Tito's loss to Wright is not the only or main reason for my ranking, it is just what I chose to mention as it was on my mind at the time. If I was writing a full explanation for each fighter on the list, I would then have mentioned Jones as well. The losses to Jones of course damage MAB, but he has so many other great wins on his resume that those losses are of only marginal importance. I rate Barrera's resume very very highly.

I always say resume is the most important thing to consider when evaluating a fighter's greatness - but that doesn't mean it is the only one. There are instances where a fighter with a weaker resume is still greater (for example I'm sure you would agree that Oscar De La Hoya has a better resume than Floyd Mayweather, but that Mayweather is the greater fighter??). Lopez-Calzaghe is similar in my mind. I think Lopez was a far better fighter in terms of skill and ability. He was simply a better boxer at his weight IMO. I can't be bothered going through it all again in detail as it's a subject I have written on extensively on this forum, but I believe Calzaghe's boxing ability is all smoke and mirrors. He has genuinely impressed me for one half of one fight in his entire career - the second half of the Kessler fight - as I think this was the only time did he show quality against quality (Lacy was not a top quality fighter and I thought Joe was unimpressive v Hopkins). I think his quality as a fighter is greatly overrated on this forum. He relies far too much on workrate to outpoint his opponent - had he ever fought a prime great who could match (or excel) his workrate, he would have no answer as he doesn't have the skills. Had he fought Roy Jones or Bernard Hopkins at any point between 1997 and 2003, he would have been soundly outskilled and beaten, I don't see anyone doing this to Lopez.

 

i put morales higher than barerra and marquez over wright..
toney is behind lopez and calzaghe imo

 

Barrera's resume is certainly good enough for a spot at #2 despite the losses to Jones. I do believe that it is reasonable to rate Trinidad higher though. While not quite as good as Barrera, he himself has an impressive resume. In retrospect, I think Tito's losses are to be expected. Knowing what we know now, it's not so bad that he got dominated by Hopkins at 160. Or against Wright at 160 already past his best, and the loss to Roy Jones means nothing IMO. Barrera should never have lost to someone of the quality of Junior Jones, who was a good fighter but far from great, especially twice. Again, a minor issue, All I'm saying is that I think they could be argued over each other. You agree?

Fair enough regarding Calzaghe/Lopez, but in reference to Lacy, who did Lopez beat who was even as proven on a world class level as Lacy? There is Rosendo Alvarez, whom Lopez struggled with. Granted, Lopez was past his prime and Alvarez was a bigger fighter, but still. I do think that you underrate Calzaghe's overall ability just a bit. Workrate alone won't beat Hopkins (even a 43 year old version), clearly defeat Kessler, and keep you undefeated against some decent-good fighters over a decade. On the level of Lopez ability-wise, perhaps not, but he is more proven.

Looking at my list, I think I'm a bit too excited over Mosley's performance last night. He probably shouldn't be #2.

 

Yes. I do love Tito as a fighter, and I rank all these guys so closely that I could definitely accept anyone having him higher than MAB. I wouldn't agree, I do think MAB's res gives him a clear edge, but I wouldn't view it as some outlandish error to have Tito above him (as I would view anyone having Calzaghe above Barrera and Morales).

Still what? You answered your own question!

Also, Sorjatorung proved later to be a far better fighter than Lacy ever was.

And I think the only thing that was proven about Lacy against Omar Sheika was that 'Left Hook' was very limited and overrated.

I don't believe he did beat Hopkins though.

Lopez also remained undefeated for over a decade and was a more skilled and better boxer.

That's something I am often guilty of too mate, the old knee-jerk. The day after Hopkins-Pavlik I would've backed Bernard to beat Vitali Klitschko!


Where would you fit Kostya Tszyu into that list?

 

1. Erik Morales
2. Ricardo Lopez
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Mike McCallum
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Shane Mosley
7. James Toney
8. Winky Wright
9. Juan Manuel Marquez
10. Joe Calzaghe

All great fighters

 

calzaghe doesn't belong among those names.

 

He said these 10 fighters. Not the 10 best of this era

 

1.Ricardo Lopez
2.Toney
3.McCallum
4.EM
5.Mosley
6.MAB
7.Calzaghe
8.Tito
9.Winky
10.JMM

 

He's not a fool, Roy jones is about 40 places ahead of this list.


The list if I'm not mistaken is a list of fighters in the 75-100 bracket of the top 100 greatest fighters of All Time.


And Roy would be in the 30's/40's on most peoples list's.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to call Sorjaturong far better than Lacy. He beat a past-it Gonzales and had a list of some defenses, but didn't beat anyone else that special himself. I doubt that he was 'far better' than Lacy when he challenged Lopez, having fought basically nobodies in his 16 or 17 fights and even losing and drawing in his previous 3 going into that bout. Lopez destroyed him, but Sorjaturong wasn't anything above Lacy.

The point was that Lacy was every bit as good as the fighters Lopez looked so great against, simply better than a good amount as well, and Calzaghe looked amazing against Lacy. I don't think Alvarez was any better than Kessler too. Where we differ though is that you feel Hopkins beat Calzaghe. For me, as I had Calzaghe winning by a point, I can't rate Lopez higher, as much of a fan of him as I am. Hopkins is leagues above the fighters Lopez beat.

A question though. If you felt Hopkins beat Calzaghe, why do you currently rate JMM higher P4P? That would mean his last 4 wins have been against Pavlik, Calzaghe, Wright, and Tarver. Hell, if I felt Hopkins won I would probably consider him #1 right now, certainly above Marquez.

At the bottom. Above Marquez, maybe Winky. Although if JMM can beat Diaz I think he should be higher all-time than Tszyu.

 

Throw in an old school fighter and he gets all the props...McCallum was a damn good fighter but he should only rank in the middle of that pack at best...I have always thought that Erik Morelas was over rated.

Shane Mosley
Ricardo Lopez
James Toney
Winky Wright
Marco Antonio Barrera
Joe Calzaghe
Mike McCallum
Félix Trinidad
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez

 

Damn Tommy, your pretty hard on Joe C but, I kind of agree with you

 

It also could be because he beat Kalambay, Jackson, Graham, Watson, Curry, Kalule, Collins, McCrory, and probably already a bit past his best gave peak Toney a basically evenly matched fight twice, and well past his best beat Jeff Harding for LHW strap.

I can't see why Lopez, Mosley, Wright, and Calzaghe rate above him.

 

1 Ricardo Lopez
2 Mike McCallum
3 James Toney
4 Shane Mosley
5 Erik Morales
6 Marco Antonio Barrera
7 Felix Trinidad
8 Winky Wright
9 Juan Manuel Marquez
10 Joe Calzaghe

 

why is lopez rated by many above zarate, MAB and EM?