Rank Winky, Oscar, Tito, and Mosley in order of ATG....

Winky is getting massively overrated here. Winky got a lot of flak for being boring which I always found unfair but I think he is clearly the weakest of this group with the only case for him to be ahead of one of these fighters is Trinidad. What were Winky's major achievements? Well the wins over Mosley, Trinidad and the draw with Jermain Taylor (I felt Winky won, but I'll go with the judges decision as I always do) plus a very game showing against a much bigger Bernard Hopkins.

Lets face it however, Winky's resume at 154 isn't anything to get blown away by, the guy has two wins against the smaller man in Shane Mosley who, while being a good fighter at 154, wasn't anything too special. His win against Tito came at 160 against Tito, who wasn't the same fighter he was at that weight as he was at 147 and 154. It was a very solid win however, a schooling but Tito got schooled before and afterwards by Hopkins and Jones. His win over Ike Quartey isn't anything to shout too much about, Quartey had already been robbed in the Forrest fight and beaten by de la Hoya and Vargas years previous, you can't ignore the fact that Quartey had been relatively inactive even before he fought de la Hoya in 1999 and was becoming a part time fighter.

Then you come to the rest of Winky's resume. The Paull Williams fight doesn't need to be brought up as Winky himself has fallen into the chasm of deterioration and inactivity. However three loses HAVE to jump out any fans who have seen them (I've not watched the Harry Simon fight unfortunately but it has to be brought up). Winky stands out here for his losses before he really hit the big time, something none of the other fighters have. de la Hoya's first loss came years into his stint as one of the best fighters in the world, same with Trinidad and Mosley. All three had fought tougher competition than Winky by the time they came to their first loss. Winky lost very very clearly to Vasquez and was very lucky in my opinion to not get stopped in that fight. Vasquez from what I've seen of his is a good solid fighter in the same regard that Leija and Molina were, but he wasn't anything special. Then comes the Harry Simon fight, Simon from what I know of him did not fight anybody as tough as Winky throughout his undefeated career (learn something new everyday) but he still none the less picked up a win against Winky (as I've said I go by judges decisions). You don't see de la Hoya, Trinidad or Mosley on their worst nights losing to guys like that whether its Molina, Gomez or Reid.

Then we come down to the one fight all men share. Ferocious Fernando Vargas. Winky managed to come away from that fight with the world class Vargas with a loss (I felt Winky lost, even if I occasionally see people saying that Winky clearly won). Now lets look how the other three did against Vargas (I know styles make fights but you have four different fighters here even if 3 can be labelled under the umbrella of boxer-puncher). Trinidad struggled with Vargas in a very tough fight but was able to stop Vargas in the 12th. de la Hoya went one better, struggling with Vargas in parts but stopping him in the 11th. Mosley faced a faded Vargas (Mosley himself wasn't in his prime at this point either though) and eeked out a tough 10th round stoppage and a stunning 6th round KO. All of these fights were at 154.

Longevity? Yeah he was still doing well when de la Hoya and Trinidad looked to be done, but Winky wasn't at the same level of competition either of them were earlier in the 1990's. Mosley takes it on longevity (shown by his fights with a prime Cotto and Margarito) not Winky.

Talk all you want to about Winky being a 154 nightmare H2H for anyone and I'll side with you to some degree. However if you are placing so much stock in Winky's head to head capabilities then what about Oscar's H2H capabilities at 135 and 140? Mosley's at 135? Or Trinidads at 147?

 

Winky deserves all the respect for his career. But when someone gets the tag of "avoided" (which generally happens because you are a high risk low reward type of fighter), some people get confused and mix that with "the best".

I would like to see a 135 version of Winky going all the way up to 160 and fight a highly competitive fight with the best middleweight since Hagler.

 

Winky was hardly avoided in my opinion. When you fight Mosley, Trinidad, Hopkins, Williams, and Taylor while getting offered fights by de la Hoya, you are hardly being avoided. Avoided is Paul Williams c2007/8.

 

He was avoided at 154. All of Winky´s big fights, except for Mosley, (who was trying to revitalize his career at that moment after 2 losses to Forrest and a questionable win with Oscar), came at 160. And Hopkins made him fight at 170.

Vargas? That was not a big fight.

 

Of course Vargas was a big fight, undefeated olympian who found himself in the ring with the big names of his era from around this weight class. Saying Vargas isn't a big fight isn't true.

Also it was Winky that wanted to move upto 160 because he wanted a shot at the middleweight title, in the process getting to fight Trinidad a (wrongfully) undefeated Taylor.

Winky turned down a fight with Oscar.

 

Same here

 

Oscar
Trinidad Winky
Mosley

 

Oscar

Mosely
Tito
Winky

Winky was very close with Tito.. Although Winky won in their fight, Tito has the bigger wins and has won titles in 3 divisions.

 

1. de la hoya
2. trinidad
3. winky
4. mosley

 

I think we all know Winky beats these guys comfortably head to head. I just don't like this list because you have 3 guys who started at 135-140 & moved up over the years & than you have Winky, a guy physically bigger than the other 3. Replacing Winky's name with someone like Quartey who fought under 140 earlier in his year would be more fair

 

I say Winky had the highest pedigree of the group, the others just had far more oppurtunities. The Vargas fight could've easily went in Winky's favor, just like the Whittaker fight could've not gone in Oscar's favor. One name that should be considerd is Vernon Forrest. In his prime, I pick him over all the other guys.

 

Maybe because he has 1 deserving win over DLH.

 

Not sure. I know Oscar wasn't at his best at 154 but I think he perhaps had the tools to beat Winky. Oscar was a much more technically proficient fighter than either Tito or Mosley, and Mosley was able to trouble Winky second time out. It would be interesting to see how Winky deals with the body punching of Oscar, his combination punching, his jabbing and underrated defence.

Would have to be the Oscar from 2002/3.