Ranking greats with inauspicious starts

Flash Elorde - lost via KO to 0-1-1 Kid Independence four months into his pro career.

Juan Manuel Márquez - lost via DQ to 1-0 Javier Duran in his pro debut.

Mike Weaver - lost via KO to 3-1 Howard Smith in his pro debut.

Rafael Márquez - lost via KO to 39-14-2 (former champ) Victor Rab****es in his pro debut.

Henry Armstrong - lost via KO to 7-5-3 Al Iovino in his pro debut.

Alexis Argüello - lost twice in his first year in the pros, 4th and 5th bout, via KO to Omar Amaya & via SD to Oscar Espinoza.

Bernard Hopkins - lost via MD to Clinton Mitchell in both men's pro debut.

Wilfredo Vázquez Sr. - lost on points to William Ramos in both men's pro debut.

Emanuel Pacquiao - lost via KO to 11-4-5 Rustico Torrecampo just thirteen months into his career.

Johnny Nelson - lost on points to Peter Brown, Tommy Taylor and Magne Havnaa consecutively in his pro debut, sop****re and tertiary effort.

There are ten - rank 'em!! :bbb

(one might balk at calling Herc or the Entertainer "greats", and I would agree they're not, but they're both champions, one boasting 13 defenses and one a very fine resume in a strong HW era despite being a Cinderella-man journeyman. Obviously the ninth and tenth spots ought to be reserved for them, but it just makes a much nicer, rounder number than eight! )


Not quite greats but notables:

Ricardo Mayorga - lost via KO to 3-0 Humberto Aranda in his pro debut.

Orlando Salido - lost via KO to Ivan Cazarez in both men's pro debut.

Ilunga Makabu - lost via KO to Khayeni Hlungwane in his pro debut.

(FWIW, both Mayorga and Salido are former world titlists, on three and four occasions respectively, and Makabu is currently a top contender at Cruiser...)

 

Here's my attempt:

1. Armstrong
2. Pacquiao
3. Argüello
4. Hopkins
5. Márquez (JM)
6. Elorde
7. Márquez (R)
8. Vázquez Sr.
9. Nelson
10. Weaver

The last two are fluid, maybe interchangeable.

 

:thumbsup Yeah, let's keep the suggestions coming so we can beef up the quality in the list of ten and prune out the guys that (with all due respect) don't belong.

 

Pacquiao & Argüello is tough, no? You could make a case for either above the other, I think?

 

Ah, Benny! - for a second I thought you meant SRL and got very confused.

 

Right then, redux:

1. Armstrong
2. Leonard
3. Pacquiao
4. Argüello
5. Hopkins
6. Márquez (JM)
7. Gómez
8. Elorde
9. Márquez (R)
10. Vázquez Sr.

 

I don't know, seven of the first ten popping into my head were from the last 20-30 years, and I'm pretty well-versed in deep boxing history. :conf

I think distribution will be more or less even throughout. You'll always have guys who rebound from rocky starts to achieve greatness.

Someone mentioned Lomachenko in his sop****re outing earlier, perfect example of a modern guy that isn't being protected.

 

Yeah.

Dempsey really didn't hit a stride until he kayoed Johnny Sudenberg and Jack Downey in their rubber matches. Both of them had been real demons for him in his first couple of years, going 0-1-3 against them.