Ranking of Sonny Liston's opponents

By Ring Annual Rankings:

Patterson #1 62
Patterson Champion 61
Eddie Machen #5 59
Zora Foley #1 59
Roy Harris #7 59
Nino Valdez #2 58
Michael DeJohn #10 58
Wayne Bethea#8 57

8 top 10 wins....5 top 5 wins, very impressive clean out for such a short period of time. Cleveland Williams would go on to be a future top 5 contender.

 

Liston’s record is more a matter of how he beat than who he beat.

Liston knocked out the reigning undisputed heavyweight champion, inside one round. The only other fighter in the history of the heavyweight division to do that was Mike Tyson (assuming that you consider Michael Spinks to be lineal when he beat him).

It is hard even to find other examples of guys who knocked out the current #1 ranked contender. Joe Louis against Max Schmeling is one of the few examples.

 

Well done, Tommo. Another great fighter you have slated. Do you feel better now? Keep wanking over David Haye, mate. It's all you are good for. Angelo Dundee said Liston would clean up in the modern era, and he saw some class fighters. I guess you know more, though?:roll:

 

Didn't he fight a guy named Muhammad Ali twice?

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Leotis Martin
3. Marty Marshall
4. Eddie Machen
5. Johnny Summerlin
6. Zora Folley
7. Who gives a ****?

 

Louis KO1 Schmeling (not so sure Schmeling was ranked #1 at that time though)

Marciano KO1 Walcott in their rematch

Liston KO1 Patterson... twice

Ali KO1 Liston in their rematch

Michael Dokes KO1 Mike Weaver in a WBA HW world title fight.

James Smith KO1 Tim Witherspoon in a WBA HW world title fight

Lennox Lewis KO1 Golota (Golota wasn't #1 but he was highly ranked)

 

I am pretty sure valdes lost his rating by the time he met Liston in 1959. Nino was knocked out by charlie powel and outpointed by alonzo johnson just prior to meeting Sonny. Altogether nino lost 9 times during pattersons reighn.

mike dejohn was 1-2 in his last 3 before meeting Liston in 1959. He was rated a year earlier though.


Liston fought wayne bethea in 1958 not 1957. Wayne was 4-4 in his last 8 fights before meeting Liston. Bethea beat ezzard charles in 1956 but lost to every rated fighter he met since then. No way was he rated the month he lost to sonny.

Machen had been exposed by Ingo johansson but was rated, he had already been beaten by Folley that year.

Harris was rated. This was a good win.

Foley was rated highly but had already lost to Henry Cooper. This was Sonnys best win before Patterson.

To be fair during this time the top ten constantly fought one another so it is unlikely a contender could go unbeaten against rated fighters without being of championship quality himself. Liston had a good run but he was not an uncrowned champion. The ingo patterson rivalry was more important than a Liston v patterson match until the triology had been resolved.

 

Hoping I have this right...

At the time they faced Liston, Folley and Machen were both ranked no.2 behind Liston himself. Harris was 6th, Williams 10th (2nd fight), DeJohn 10th. Patterson, of course, was champion in the first fight and no.1 contender in the second.

Valdes and Bethea had suffered recent defeats and dropped out of the ratings. Johnny Summerlin and Billy Hunter entered the top 10 shortly after their losses to Liston.

Liston also beat, when long past his own prime, Amos Johnson (ranked 8th) and Henry Clark (ranked 5th).

 

No, dejohn had also dropped out the ratings losing twice to valdes prior to meeting Liston.

Wiliams was not rated for either fight with Liston. He was not rated before and between both KO losses williams only beat ernie cab and curley lee.
Cleavland big cat williams did not appear in any ratings until 1961-62 even then it was from beating miteff and alonzo johnson who were both 50-50 against name fighters at that time.

Liston beat 3 curently rated contenders before his title shot. Harris, machen and folley which is an average ratio for future champions. Ali beat Moore, Cooper and lavorante. Marciano beat Louis, layne mathews and lastarza. Charles beat baksi, elmer ray and jimmy bivins. Its about normal.

 

I don't know where you're getting your facts from, and of course it depends whose ratings we're talking about, but here's a contemporary report giving DeJohn's rating as either 9th or 10th:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=EQlXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=C0MNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121,2704619&dq

And another one giving Williams' as 10th:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qwIqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=piYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5357,507453&dq

 

I have some ring magazines for the period and Williams dosnt register until 61-62 and to be honest checking his record i dont see how he could have deserved to any earlier. Back then you only got a ranking out of beating rated fighters or former contenders. Williams had not done this. Earnie cab was not rated. The first name guy Williams actually beat was miteff in 1961 but even then alex miteff was losing as much as he was winning and was more "former contender"by then.

Dejohn was losing too. He was part of a circuit of contenders who fought each other with a win some lose some record. He beat miteff in 1957 who was considered simething of a sensation after 12 fights to get a ranking but later blew that with losses to valdes who could not string wins together either at that point.

 

Yeah, I know... the first 3 on my list went 4-2 (3) vs. Liston. Ali stopped him twice, Martin stopped him, Marshall broke his jaw and outboxed him for a decision win. Liston did stop Marshall and won a decision over him. Marshall was about 180 Lbs. He won two close decisions over Summerlin. Machen gave him some trouble but Liston beat him by clear decision.

He looked good in his stoppages over Patterson x2, Folley, and Williams x2. Williams was far from the level of Patterson or even Folley... but he was much bigger than them.

50-4 (39) overall, stopped 3 times, and 2-2 (2) in HW World Title fights... both wins over Patterson, both losses to Ali.

I'm not sure why so many pick him over the likes of Foreman, Lewis, Holyfield, V. Klitschko, or W. Klitschko.

...but Foreman said Liston backed him up in sparring!!! Boxers always talk up the wrong fighters. Ever notice how it's always a guy they knocked out that hit them harder than the guy who knocked them out??? Liston died in 1970, Foreman was just starting out as a pro and he didn't have a long amateur career despite winning an Olympic Gold medal in '68. FOREMAN WOULD HAVE BEAT LISTON'S ASS LIKE HE STOLE SOMETHING.